Demographics & Economics
OMB
Congressional Budget Office
The Federal Budget
U.S. Census Quickfacts
Inflation Calculator
CIA World Factbook
NationMaster
State Healthcare Facts
UN HDR stats
US Bureau of Economic Analysis
US Bureau of Labor Statistics
US CDC health stats
US DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics
US DOJ crime stats
Constitution
The Constitution
The Founders' Constitution
The Avalon Project
The Federalist Papers
The antifederalist papers
Founding documents
Politics
ADA (liberal) Voting Records
ACU (conservative) Voting Records
Census Voter Turnout
Congressional Research Service
Memeorandum
NOW list of voting scorecards
PolitiFact
PorkBusters
Project VoteSmart list of voting scorecards
RealClearPolitics
Roll call votes--House
Roll call votes--Senate
Survey USA
WaPo Votes Database
Iraq/Terrorism
CentCom
Brookings Institute Iraq Index
Project on Defense Alternatives War Report
Nat'l Defense Univ Iraq
Nat'l Defense Univ Afghanistan
MERLIN, Nat'l Defense Univ Library Network
STRATFOR
Nat'l Memorial Inst for Prevention of Terrorism
West Point's Combating Terrorism Center
Politics blogs
Baldilocks
Blue Mass Group
Cadillac Tight
California Conservative
Jon Chait
Confederate Yankee
Crooked Timber
Democracy Project
Dinocrat
First Read
Gateway Pundit
GenerationPatriot
Horse Race Blog
Just One Minute
Hugh Hewitt
Michelle Malkin
Patterico's Pontifications
Power Line
Red State
RNCC blog
Scrappleface
Sister Toldjah
Talking Points Memo
The Blogometer
The Corner
The Next Right
The Moderate Voice
Think Progress
Wizbang
Moderate / centrist
Ambivablog
Bipartisan Rules
Booker Rising
Centerfield
Charging RINO
Donklephant
Liberal War Journal
Militant Moderates
The Buck Stops Here
The Glittering Eye
The Iconic Midwest
The PoliGazette
The Walrus Said
Legal & academic
How Appealing
Becker-Posner
Bench Memos
Concurring Opinions
Economists Do It With Models
Legalities
Prawfsblawg
SCOTUSblog
Sentencing Law & Policy
UCFB
The Volokh Conspiracy
Christian
Archbp Dolan: Gospel in the Digital Age
Bp Chris Coyne: Let Us Walk Together
ADW blog
Simon Dodd: Motu Proprio
Fr Zuhlsdorf: WDTPRS
Fr Longenecker: Standing On My Head
Elizabeth Scalia: The Anchoress
First Thoughts
Mirror of Justice
Rorate Cæli
Veritas Rex
Middle East & Muslim affairs
Eteraz
Iraq the Model
Lebanese Political Journal
Michael Totten
Michael Yon
General interest
Althouse
Ambiance
Chris Muir's Day by Day
Instapundit
IowaHawk
JAC
Professor Bainbridge
Prettier than Napoleon
Rachel Lucas
The Right Coast
Science Blog
Sippican Cottage
Whatever
President Bush's veto messasge wednesday raised four concerns: "This legislation is objectionable because it would set an arbitrary date for beginning the withdrawal of American troops without regard to conditions on the ground; it would micromanage the commanders in the field by restricting their ability to direct the fight in Iraqi; and it contains billions of dollars of spending and other provisions completely unrelated to the war." 153 Cong. Rec. 4315.
I agree with all of that, and I also agree (to an extent) with his fourth reason for vetoing the bill: "[T]his legislation is unconstitutional because it purports to direct the conduct of the operations of the war in a way that infringes upon the powers vested in the Presidency by the Constitution, including as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces." But where was this solicitude for the Constitution's limitations on Congressional power when the President signed McCain-Feingold1 notwithstanding his stated belief that "[c]ertain [of its] provisions present serious constitutional concerns," including "reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising, which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import in the months closest to an election" and its "diminish[ing]" and "restrict[ion]" of First Amendment rights. Alas, those concerns were presented in a signing statement rather than a veto message; the President was content to "expect that the courts will resolve the[] legitimate legal questions" about McCain-Feingold.
it would micromanage the
it would micromanage the commanders in the field by restricting their ability to direct the fight in Iraqi
That statement is kind of strange, and I think not true. How would the bill "mircromange" commanders--unless micromanage means "set broad targets" or something.
[edit--also, what does he mean by the "arbitrary date" comment? So, its better just to say we are staying indefiniely no matter what happens, which seems to be the Bush strategy. Republican or Democrat, all I hope is that the next President is at least a little bit competent]
Quibbling and misdirection.
Quibbling and misdirection.
Since the exact wording of the bill return message is linked, I shouldn't NEED to reproduce any of it here, but since you insist....
"The micromanagement in this legislation is unacceptable because it would create a series of requirements that do not provide the flexibility needed to conduct the war. It would constrict how and where our Armed Forces could engage the enemy and defend the national interest, and would provide confusing guidance on which of our enemies the military could engage."
Also:
This legislation is objectionable because it would set an arbitrary date for beginning the withdrawal of American troops without regard to conditions on the ground;
Agree or disagree, Justin? And why? Refer to the specific contents of the bill when answering.
You can find the text of the vetoed bill here. [pdf] All 168 pages of it. Have fun!
You obviously haven't read
You obviously haven't read the bill, as the relevant portions aren't that long (not 168 pages)--you should know better than to defend what Bush says without actually reading the relevant text. The first statement simply isn't true, unless you change the definition of micromanage. The second statement is a bit absurd, as any decision made about staying or leaving can be called arbitrary--calling something arbitrary isn't a reasoned argument, it's an assertion. So, yes, if you want to leave Iraq, you need to pick some date, but saying we need to stay with no plan for or definition of victory is not any less arbitrary.
While I think it is ridiculous to make an assertion without having read the bill, and then say "prove me wrong", I'll play the game anyway. [Note: The version of the bill you linked to is different from what I've read on Thomas]
http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:84:./temp/~c110n0AGLE:e822:
You can start with Section 1904 (around page 75 of your bill)--The President must make certain certifications to Congress about the progress of Iraqi security, if he can't do so (variations here depending on which version of the bill you are reading), the troops need to be pulled out w/in 180 days (and, if certain conditions are met re: equitable distribution of oil revenue and elections, the troops need to be redeployed after 3/1/2008). There are provisions that allow for troops to be used for training the Iraqi security forces and for limited actions against al quada (subsection (f)). Unless you change the definition of micromanage, that is not micromanaging. Boss: "Your unit needs to earn $1 million by the end of the year or you are fired:. Employee: "Stop micromanaging me!"
If you think leaving is a bad idea, then it makes sense that you think the bill is a bad idea. But don't pretend the bill is saying something it isn't.
LMAO. Change the definition
LMAO. Change the definition of micromanagement so that you can defend it! And don't forget the gratuitous ad hominems! BAD Justin. No cookie. (I've read thousands of bills, and I read this one also.)
Micromanage: to manage especially with excessive control or attention to details
Exhibited in sections 1312, 1314, 1315, 1316. For starters. Yes, that's micromanagement. More quibbling and misdirection. So, once again, who's in control of the military? I keep re-reading the Consitution, trying to find where Congress was desginated that function. I don't see it. So when Congress demands committee reports and approval on a "project-by-project basis" for every individual Iraqi and Afghan unit under training, it sure looks like micromanagement to me. As does mandating deployment conditions for individual units, setting troop deployment levels, etc.
Arbitrary: based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something
The Congressional date-certain-by-fiat sure seems to fit the definition of "arbitrary." I guess you could claim that it's not arbitrary under other definitions because it's fixed, but that's pretty weak. Quibbling.
My very favorite for dark humor is, after spending many many pages detailing all the micromanaging oversight and approvals and control they insist upon, both in the details of military operations and in the dictating of foreign policy via the "benchmarks" they wish to coerce the Iraqi government into as conditions for not pulling the plug on them, Congress finds that "It is the sense of Congress that Congress acknowledges the President as the Commander in Chief, and that role is granted solely to the President by article II, section 2 of the United States Constitution."
I men, that's just gotta make you smile. Yeah, you're C-in-C, as long as you do exactly what we tell you to! Sign here.... :-)
I'm dumbfounded as to how
I'm dumbfounded as to how you can read this bill and consider it to be micromanaging, unless you consider any Congressional oversight on spending bills to be micromanaging. For example, section 1312
(a) Of the funds appropriated or made available in this chapter under the heading ??Operation and Maintenance, Defense-Wide??, up to $100,000,000 may be made available for transfer to the Department of State ??Economic Support Fund?? account to support pro-11 vincial reconstruction teams in Iraq and Afghanistan: Pro-vided, That these funds may be transferred by the Sec-13 retary of Defense only if he determines such amounts are 14 required to assist in reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Or, Section 1313
None of the funds made available in this Act may be used in contravention of the following laws enacted or regulations promulgated to implement the 26 C68 with United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other 1 Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (done at New York on December 10, 1984): (1) Section 2340A of title 18, United States 4 Code
Or Section 1314
(a) Not more than 50 percent of the amount of the funds appropriated by this Act under each of the headings ??Iraq Security Forces Fund?? and ??Af-22 ghanistan Security Forces Fund?? shall be available for ob-23 ligation or expenditure until the Secretary of Defense submits the initial report required by subsection (b)
How on earth is this micromanging the war? It's quite an Orewellian use of language to call general oversight micromanging.
The Constitution gives Congress the power to appropriate funds, and it is well settled that Congress can attached strings to an appropriations bill. Do you think that the framers really meant that money is to be authorizied by Congress, except when the President is asking for money for a war, in which case Congress must give him everything he wants? Because that is esssentially your argument.
Congress certainly has the power (and a duty) to provide oversight for the conduct of a war.
In the Constituition, Congress is authorized to ?provide for the common Defense,? Art. I, sec. 8, cl. 1, to raise and support armies, Art. 1, sec. 8, cl. 12, and to ?make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces,? Art. 1 Sec. 8, cl. 14.
Or, as Scalia put in his Hamdi dissent (obviously in a different context than here):
Except for the actual command of military forces, all authorization for their maintenance and all explicit authorization for their use is placed in the control of Congress under Article I, rather than the President under Article II. As Hamilton explained, the President?s military authority would be ?much inferior? to that of the British King:
?It would amount to nothing more than the supreme command and direction of the military and naval forces, as first general and admiral of the confederacy: while that of the British king extends to the declaring of war, and to the raising and regulating of fleets and armies; all which, by the constitution under consideration, would appertain to the legislature.? The Federalist No. 69, p. 357.
Read the entire bill, Justin...
Cherry-picking the first subparagraph does indeed make it sound rather innocuous. But when you look at the entirety of section 1314, it's very definitely micro-managing. The bit you quote requires the secretary of defense to provide a "report" before being able to actually use a very large chunk of the appropriation. "Report" doesn't sound like much, right? Well, this report requires the Secretary to provide "individual transition readiness assessments of Iraq and Afghan security forces." With monthly updates through Oct. 2008. Requiring that detailed of a report, with regular updates, is indeed "micromanaging." One doesn't need that level of detail unless one wants to quibble with the details, and quibbling with the details is micromanaging. Whether it's a formal order or simply pulling the Secretary and the generals up to Capitol Hill to be grilled under oath for hours, when they should be busy fighting the war, is micromanaging. Note, by the way, that the Secretary must provide this report to 4 separate congressional committees, each of which may decide to hold its own hearings and interrogations.
To make the micromanaging even clearer, subsection (c) requires a report from OMB... and again, the initial report must be filed BEFORE 50% of the appropriated funds can actually be spent. The OMB report doesn't just ask for readiness reports, it wants reports on the "proposed uses" of all funds on a "project-by-project basis," including estimates by the (military) commanders of the costs to complete each project. If it's not micromanaging, why would they need to see a report of proposed uses of the money? Asking for proposed uses, with project-by-project estimates, is done only if one wants to, again, quibble about the details... the definition of micro-managing.
And in subsection (d) of section 1314, the Secretary of Defense must again notify Congress (4 committees) if he wants any new projects above $15 million. That doesn't technically require Congressional approval, but it is, in the real world of Washington, DC, a "mother-may-I" provision. If the Secretary notifies the committees of a new project, and they go "tsk, tsk," only a real fool would continue with that project. And much as it may be to us everyday folks, $15 million is absolute peanuts in the scale of this war and the reconstruction costs. Talk about adding delays. $15 million is a micro-detail, and thus the pre-implementation requirement of notice is micro-managing.
Sections 1901 and 1902 continue the micro-managing, seeking to impose what it claims are DoD policies via legislation. Congress probably has the power to do this under the "make rules" provision in the Constitution, but it should do so directly, not through conditional appropriations. And these are unwise, anyway. They're designed to sound real good, but in fact put severe limits on the President's ability to deploy military units as he sees fits.
Section 1901 prohibits deployment of any unit not certified as "fully mission capable," unless the President swears to Congress that it's really, really important to do so. Under current usage, "fully mission capable" designations are bureaucratic type, button-counting designations which don't necessarily reflect whether a unit is in fact combat-ready. The only purpose for this amendment is to gain political advantage, trotting out the President's "awareness" that he is sending "unprepared troops" into combat. That's not what's going on.
Section 1902 prohibits deploying Army and Marine units for more than 365 days. While we'd all love to have our troops back home sooner, and with faster rotation times, this is war, and wars don't go according to pre-planned schedules. My cousin just had his deployment extended. As much as I want him back home with his wife and family, that should not come at the expense of the mission. At any rate, setting such precise deployment-period limits is "micromanaging." The next section, by the way, also requires each unit to have 365 days back home (210 for the Marines) before being redeployed.
Section 1904 (requiring the President to certify that the Iraqis were making progress in certain key areas) might be useful to push the Iraqis toward action if it weren't so transparently clear that the Democrats are hell-bent on getting us out of Iraq, no matter what. If the Democrats were actually saying "we're staying until we win, but we don't believe the Iraqi government has been serious enough, so here's some conditions," that might help. But that's not what most Democrats in Congress are saying. They're saying "we've lost," and similar defeatists whinings. Thus, the "conditions" being imposed are micro-managing, not actually helping.
Crucial unconstitutional language here:
And look at the wording of section 1904(c). If the President doesn't certify that the Iraqis have made progress as required in subsections (a) and (b):
Not "the Authorization for Use of Military Force shall be repealed 180 days thereafter," nor even "the authorization granted by the appropriations herein shall cease 180 days thereafter." No, the Secretary of Defense "shall commence the redeployment... That is actually ordering the movement of troops. Congress cannot order the movement of troops. Period. Yet this provision directly bypasses the Commander-in-Chief and gives a military order to the Secretary of Defense. It is absolutely unconstitutional.
There's more micromanaging in the bill, but those are some of the high points.
All of your examples sound
All of your examples sound like reasonable oversight by the body in charge of appropriating funds. Congress is finally using its Constitutional powers to hold the President accountable for the Administration's actions. If the President wishes to wage an indefinite war, and have an infinite amount of money to do so, the legistlature needn't acquiesce.
Congress certainly, or at least most likely, has the power to tie the withdrawal of troops from an occupied country to a spending bill. What exactly is the Constitutional issue? Are you saying they correct course would be to repeal the AUF?
Correct, many in Congress and in the US believe that we've lost the war (depending on how you define victory), or because victory is so hard to define, that staying in Iraq is a losing proposition for both the US and the Iraqis. If staying is a losing proposition, Congress should do everything in its power to get the US out of Iraq.
[edit] this LA Times editorial sums it up pretty well for me:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-iraq6may06,0,3257310.story?coll=la-opinion-leftrail