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Gateway Pundit points us to this interesting report that Bob McCulloch may be named U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri.
You may remember Mr. McCulloch from this incident during the campaigns, where the Obama campaign asked Missouri law enforcement officials to persecute prosecute anyone running any campaign ads that the Obama folks didn't like, and said officials appeared to agree to be on board, enthusiastically joining the "Obama Goon Truth Squad."
The spoils of goon. Not exactly the HopeChange® people say they've been looking for, but certainly in line with the insider dealing some of us predicted. It's a brave new world....
"I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views." --Barack Obama in The Audacity of Hope
even worse than that
Even worse than that, he went on national TV and said he was going to throw his weight around and came out in favor of a college football playoff system. Who does this guy think he is?
It's clear to me now that he's absolutely, precisely, and without exception just like every other politician. There are no substantive exceptions to be found anywhere. Where do I sign up to get my crusade button? :-)
And where do I contribute to the defense fund for the people who have been wrongly charged and convicted in McCulloch's scandalous effort to stifle free dissent? :-)
Seriously though, I agree that the kinds of efforts you describe, if in fact undertaken seriously, are to be vigorously opposed. I haven't heard of anyone actually being charged or substantively harassed. Did such things happen? All I have been able to find out is that the Obama campaign asked that opposition ads he claimed were misleading be investigated, which some have classed as 'strong-arm tactics." However, when I looked at the ads myself, I noticed that there was reason, at least at a glance, to doubt that these ads were giving an accurate account. In particular, the ads claimed that Obama himself described Bill Ayers as mainstream and respectable. I have looked, and have so far been unable to find the entire quote from which these 2 single-word excerpts sprung. I did find a blog post which suggested that they came from an op-ed posted on the Obama web site, but not written by Obama. If that's so, then strictly speaking, it's a lie to say that Obama said those things.
I am open to correction if anyone can show me that Obama did in fact directly say or write those words in describing Bill Ayers. But if the op-ed story is accurate, then I'd look askance at any argument of the shape "it's the same thing as if he had said these things himself."
I'm basically with you on this Brian, although I did think the
strategy of trying to shut down ads via government officials, even sleazy dishonest ones, gives me pause, to say the least.
Selective memory...
I haven't heard of anyone actually being charged or substantively harassed. Did such things happen?
The outcry from the Missouri report seems to have short-circuited that particular attempt to bully critics into silence through threats of prosecution (and you have read the First Amendment, haven't you?) but we documented numerous other instances of attempts to use legal means to bully ads off the air throughout the campaign, including the attempts to intimidate broadcasters with threats of legal action and prosecution, including license threats. Not to mention the Obama campaign's college try at using the US Dept. of Justice to stifle ads it didn't like through requests for criminal prosecution. Guess you either didn't bother to read them, or have a short and selective memory.
I am open to correction if anyone can show me that Obama did in fact directly say or write those words in describing Bill Ayers.
Consider yourself corrected, unless you're gonna weasel on demanding that Obama said them himself, rather than his campaign surrogates and campaign materials publicly saying it, essentially making the claim that his campaign does not speak for him. Those words originally came from Obama supporter Alexander Cockburn in an editorial titled "Playing the Race Card" that he submitted to the Las Vegas Review Journal, subsequently published March 2, 2008. The op/ed was originally aimed at rebutting Clinton campaign criticism of Obama's associations with Ayers and Dorhn, among others (Wright). It was subsequently top-of-page cited by the Obama campaign's own "Fact Check" web page on Ayers and Dohrn as support for Obama's association with them. But going there to check for it now won't help you--shortly after that featured quote started being used against Obama, it vanished down the campaign's ever-handy Memory Hole.
But some of us take screen shots when we suspect something is going to quickly vanish. So, exactly as it appeared on Obama's own campaign web site:
Note the wording of the header, the exact way in which the Obama campaign represented the citation. Note that the precision accuracy of the ads is not all that relevant, as the suppression of free speech by legal bullying is the point here.
a few simple points
A few simple points:
1. You've just admitted that Obama DIDN'T say these things. Period. You lose that one, your preemptive attempt at reframing notwithstanding. (You'll note in my reply to Rafique that I've already pointed out that If the commercial had been more skillfully crafted, they could have avoided providing a legitimate basis for complaint. Once such a basis is supplied, you favoritepolitics aint beanbag rule applies. How hard is it to make a negative campaign ad and leave out a baldly demonstrable lie?
2. I'm against bullying if that's all that it is. But if it's a matter where the context is deliberately factually inaccurate, a different standard applies. And it's important to note that I don't even bring this up in the context of defending Barack Obama. It stems from my deep loathing of negative campaigning when it is deliberately misleading.
3.I clicked through and snuffled around quite a bit on this one. Instead of finding accounts of actual prosecutions, I found whining about saber-rattling and I found that the actual substantive claims in the clips you displayed were worth questioning. [See point 1.] Nice to see you adopting the left's old whiny "chilling effect" argument, though.
Bottom line, if your commercial is well-supported balls-on accurate stuff and not over-inflated bits and unsupported pieces, then all you really have to do is show the sack to go ahead and let it fly, because then any bullying can't be more than bluffing.
One idle question.,..you wouldn't really be so opaque as to claim that "mainstream liberal Chicago"means the same thing as "mainstream" would you?
Quite chilling
Brian, when Hillary brought up Ayers in a debate, Obama brushed it off and countered with an attack on Hillary’s connection to somebody. He took his usual indignant attitude that such questions were somehow un-American and distractions in the way of the people electing him. I remember an interview long ago when a Chicago paper asked Obama about Ayers. He said they "knew" each other "because their children attended the same school". Of course, Obama knew Ayers long before he had children and the Press HAS reported that Michelle was friendly with the wives of Khalidi, Rezko and Ayer, often having dinner together or involved in real estate dealings. Obama denied he ever had a starting fundraiser at Ayer's home. Isn’t he lying and if so, why has no media outlet besides Fox, taken this falsehood on? For this they are called FAR RIGHT?
I read Barak and Michelle were seated with Ayers at a party for Khalidi. A video tape has been suppressed due to the fact that a number of anti-Israel things took place at this event and would have caused trouble for Obama before the vote. It doesn't take much to see why the vetting of Obama's associations met an unwilling press. Think PBS would run a documentary on the failed housing efforts of Obama in Illinois or the groups sharing in the flow of money from Annenberg and Woods Fund to Trinity or from Rezko? This was not a circle that most Americans would find troubling? I wonder if a Kennedy took notice that Ayers dedicated a book to Sirhan Sirhan. Why was Fox the only media that dared to out this fact when all had time to investigate? Gee, let me guess, fear or koolaid?
And where was the mainstream Press when Ayers held a recent Press conference and claimed he never was part of any organization that advocated violence or harmed anyone. Not a single “professional” reporter refuted that bogus claim. I wonder why. Even the Chicago Tribune refuses to retract a similar claim of their citizen of the year while suggesting Palin's youngest child was really her daughter's. You simply refuse to see the filtering and the pressure mentioned above. The US is now convicting members of certain groups in Chicago and Michigan with illegal ties to Hamas. Clinton signed the Material Support law. I believe money Obama and Ayers gave Khalidi's wife went to groups that worked with one group recently convicted. Obama funded Trinty from two boards. Shall the Press really vet the groups Trinity passed the money to? And although it was common knowledge in Chicago that Obama went to a small private toast of Auchi, Rezko's sugardaddy, the Press didn't question Obama's claim he has never met the man. Really? Can you explain the obvious free pass? And the fact much of media refuses to take up simple journalism to flush these question out, is not because of the fear of retribution?
Several Democrats I know call the Pew Report on bias a "Right Wing" smear and frankly that lead to some heated words at Thanksgiving for me up there in Weston last week. My own sister called the 80% approval rate for Palin in Alaska a bogus claim spread by Right Wing media. Wow. She says she gets her news from MSNBC.
I remember at the time, I smelled a journalistic crap when reading the reports on this from WAPO, the LA Times and the NYT. Some call it Paliwood. I hope this doesn't merge with Bariwood. Bias is the flip side of the fear of retribution, both deadly for American journalism.
Your #1: BS. You're saying
Your #1: BS. You're saying that the campaign does NOT represent the candidate, that nothing the campaign does can be held against the candidate. Uh uh. It most assuredly does and can. It is the official agent for speaking for the candidate--he owns it.
I've already pointed out that If the commercial had been more skillfully crafted, they could have avoided providing a legitimate basis for complaint
There is no legitimate basis for CRIMINAL complaint and/or regulatory repression, which were the threates made. You're arguing against the First Amendment. You are free to whine all you like. What part of "attempting to suppress speech using threats of persecution by the state" did you miss?
Your #2: But if it's a matter where the context is deliberately factually inaccurate, a different standard applies.
No, it doesn't. You have nitpicked out a very iffy characterization in order to apparently endorse (or at least rationalize and excuse) attempting to use the state to actively persecute political speech that you do not like. That is indeed a REAL different standard.
Your #3: I clicked through and snuffled around quite a bit on this one. Instead of finding accounts of actual prosecutions
That the attempts o bully mostly failed and never managed to get cooperation from the state under this adminstration says good things about the people threatened and hopefully about the system, but not about those making the threats. Apparently in Brian-world an unsuccessful bully is a completely justified and even vindicated one. Yes, when a potential President's agents threaten your broadcasting license, it's a credible threat. And when they threaten you with a Justice Dept they will likely be in charge of the next election round, there is indeed a potential chilling effect.
So spare me the sophistry, nitpicking, and tap-dancing. If you wish to endorse and approve the atempted suppression of free speech using the power of the state by dismissing and even rationalizing such thuggery, ust come right out and say so. The nitpicking characterized accuracy of the ads themselves is utterly besides the point unless you actually support the use of such repugnant thuggery in suppressing political speech. The ONLY way in which your nitpickery acquires any relevance to the topic is as supportive apologetics. Apparently you're all in favor.
Now, go re-read the post and see if you can figure out where you went off track.
Be as pedantic as you want
Be as pedantic as you want Tully. Factually incorrect is still factually incorrect. My repeated experience is that its only "weasely" or "nitpicky" when I do it. But when Tully does it from Tullyworld, it's righteous correction.
I stand by using the law to combat factually inaccurate representation in cases where that applies. And I stand against legal bullying when that's all there is to it. Which I already said, and which you ignored in favor of your " If you wish to endorse and approve..." rant.
I can't speak to which bucket each one of these disparate cases you cited falls, because I am not familiar with the details of each one. So I didn't. Instead I spoke particularly ONLY to the one I drilled down into, and which I found suspect for the reasons I stated. You call 'em nitpicking and I don't. Mileage variance.
You're the one who always says politics aint beanbag. Anyone who will allow themselves to be bullied by legal threats that are known to be baseless needs to look into a new line of work.
Not mileage variance but
Not mileage variance but intentional avoidance of the point of the post while still attempting to discredit it with whiny irrelevancies. If you have nothing to say that's actually on point to the post, why did you bother to comment?
I stand by using the law to combat factually inaccurate representation in cases where that applies.
IOW, you stand by the politicized abuse of law enforcement and the courts to suppress political speech you disagree with. And that is indeed referring to the particulars of the ad you addressed and your characterizations of it, which has been elucidated above despite your denials and/or apparent inability to notice or acknowledge the principles involved, or the point of the post.
Here's some homework. Oh, and here's some of the ongoing details of an attempt at establishing that "chilling effect." Check the right sidebar for backstory.