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Simon's earlier post, The Party of Hate and Intolerance, III, stirred up some conversation about the distinction between blog posts and comments, and the responsibility (or lack thereof) blog owners have for comments left on their site.
It is indisputable that no blogger should be held responsible for the specific individual comments made by people who merely comment on his or her blog. The thoughts and opinions of commenters are theirs and theirs alone. The blog owner takes no legal responsibility for them simply by providing the forum to make them. Bloggers should haven't to micro-manage their comment threads.
But at the same time, blogers are, I think, responsible for the general tenor of their comment sections. Bloggers can, and very often do, restrict comments, delete comments, and ban commenters because they don't like what they say. If they consistently choose to not ban certain types of comments and commenters with certain regularly-expressed views, they are not perhaps endorsing them, but certainly tolerating them. By banning some types of comments while allowing others, they are exerting some editorial control and effectively promoting one point of view over the other, at the very least suggesting that they consider the non-banned comments part of the realm of legitimate discourse. Keep in mind that I am not talking about one comment here or there, but the overall tenor of a site measured in hundreds and thousands of comments.
The people running Kos will ban right-wingers at the drop of a hat, just as the people at RedState will ban lefties as soon as they appear. That's an editorial decision made by the blog owners for which they are legitimately responsible. Similarly, there is a lot of cussing at Kos because Markos chose not to prohibit cussing, and he himself uses it from time to time. RedState, by contrast, has chosen to prohibit cussing across the board. Again, these are editorial decisions for which the editors of each are responsible.
Two years ago when I noticed mostly the left complaining about the vicious nature of right wing blogs, a popular target was Charles Johnson's Little Green Footballs. His commenters frequently post some pretty harsh stuff, bigoted, hate-filled, poorly thought-out. Charles' own posts, while from a strong point of view, generally make valid, non-hate-based points. But I thought then, as I think now, that Charles bears some responsibility for allowing his comments thread to become a festering pit, wallowed in by unpleasant people who, for their own reasons perhaps, agree with much of his policy prescriptions. Charles bears responsibility not for any individual comment, but for providing a forum and tolerating those types of comments while not tolerating, say, dissenting voices from the left.
Not only does Charles tolerate these commenters over time, but he also rarely if ever chastises them for going too far or take them to task for extremist, violent language.
Similarly, note that while Huffington Post mostly took down the offensive comments, I saw not one word directed at the commenters saying something simple like, "Commenters, we understand that you have strong feelings, but we at Huffington Post do not believe it is appropriate to wish for the assassination of our Vice President, nor to express regret that such an assassination attempt failed." Not even an update to the original post saying "Some commenters let their emotions run ahead of themselves and said things that they shouldn't have. We've removed those comments because we find the sentiment they expressed inappropriate."
Remember, I'm not saying that bloggers are responsible themselves for any individual comment posted. But bloggers do make editorial decisions which impact the general tone of their comments section, and bloggers may properly be held responsible for the consequences of those decisions.
Funny you should say that...
Funny you should say that... (I'd been thinking about posting that earlier).
I leave a blog
as soon as I encounter the first vile comment because it seems to open a floodgate where the vile
comments escalate.
Huzzah and amen, Army Mom.
Huzzah and amen, Army Mom. I've noticed that actual amount of substantive content in a comment thread seems to be in near-direct inverse proportion to the level of obscenity and scatalogy and profanity.
There's a distinguishable
There's a distinguishable difference between liable and responsible. And our own footer covers the basics there.
The best Example....
...of how to run a comment section (imo) is Michael Totten's place. It is also one of the hardest places to have a decent comment section because of the hate filled rants his reportage generates. But he is clear and consistent about what is acceptable and what is out of line. It takes extra work (as he gets lots of comments) but it makes for a much better experience than reading through the Daily Kos or LGF. (I dislike the comment section on LGF so much I've made an editorial decision not to use the site for my own blogging. I dislike the DK comment section just as much, but I enjoy criticizing the DK too much to not use it. It is blogging gold.)
I will say this though...to just delete the anti-Cheney comments without being up front and saying "We did this because we find these comments completely unacceptable" or something similar is, in a way, intellectually dishonest. The question remains. Did the HP remove them because they were "unacceptable" or because they were embarrasing rhetorically?
Both maybe? Who knows?
As far as blogs with a whole lot of comments go, Michael Totten indeed has to be the hardest working moderator on the blogosphere. He has fair and consistent rules, and works hard to tame the jungle that his comments section can become. I make it a habit to avoid LGF (and Kos too, pretty much). There's not much in terms of reasoned discourse over there.
BTW, at the risk of gratuitous self-promotion, I must say that Stubborn Facts and Centerfield have two of the best run comments sections around.
"In the world you will find tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world."
John 16:33
True
"BTW, at the risk of gratuitous self-promotion, I must say that Stubborn Facts and Centerfield have two of the best run comments sections around."
The nice thing about many of the non-gargantuan blogs is that comment section do not have the same tendency to get away from folks.
While I was on hiatus from The Iconic Midwest the place did get overrun with Viagra spam...but thats a different story. :-)
Re spam
I keep getting spam on one and only one specific post at my erstwhile solo blog, and it's beaten every attempt to stop it. I'm at the point of just deleting the post by now.
I dont think I'd ever....
...delete an old post though it is sometimes tempting. Besides, I enjoy the fact that I have an old post that annoys the hell out of your more Imperial minded Russians. It is a couple of years old now and it still gets read 10-20 times a month.
Ah!, the joys of blog ownership!
I will read the posts at Kos
I will read the posts at Kos and LGF on occasion, but I never step into the comment swamps there. No point. And no real content, which is why there's no point.
Without naming names, there are definitely some pointedly partisan blogs that have managed to cultivate decent comment sections. They certainly not be free of slant and rant, but it's intelligent slant and rant, and generally free of the gratuitous use of offensive language.
And then there's the places where the blogmasters simply stay out of the jungle, and let the animals run free to do their worst.
The problem was not blogs
The problem was not blogs per se but the conflation of Kos with the Democratic Party. I agree Kos is infested with nasty little twits, as is LGF, as are a lot of blogs.
The problem is that the headline of the piece was "Party of Hate." Kos is not a party, it's a blog. The Democratic Party is not a party of hate and intolerance because some blog has idiot commentors. That was the leap that went way overboard. That was a cheap shot and blatant partisan propaganda.