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It's getting fractious out there and many of us are tired of it

Submitted by Simon on Tue, 08/02/2011 - 8:16pm

Jonah and Sister T speak for many of us. I don't know about you, but I'm getting pretty tired of being called a hostage-taking extremist, a thug, a terrorist, a racist, an extortionist, a kidnapper, a racist, and so forth—all by the very people who presumed to lecture us about the need for civility in January (a disingenuous and ironically uncivil exercise though it obviously was at the time). And all this for what? For insisting that government live within its means. Lector, si tonum novum requiris, circumspice.

Are we really going to play this game again? If we must...

First some facts, or at least, a different side of the story: Biden nver actually called Republicans terrorists. He never said it. Second: I get that a modest recommendation that both sides, who at various times has taken things too far, to cool their tongues, was just too much to bear for those righties who seem to think that angry rhetoric only comes from one side, but could you stop whining about it, if you don't mind?

Look, a lot of us, particularly in the last two and half years, have had quite enough of being called Marxists, Communists, socialists, terrorist-lovers, anti-Israel, perpetrators of a jihad against America, enemies of humanity, baby-killers, thugs, racists, sexists, unpatriotic, for "open borders," fascists, "vile and despicable,"among other things, for having the audacity to disagree politically with conservatives, or suporting policies that Democrats campaigned on. It's really tiresome.

Here's a tip: How about we end this game, and condemn this sort of stuff, wherever it is found. I'll do it now: it is wrong for anyone to call Tea Partiers terrorists, or racists, or kidnappers, or any of that without cause. I think the GOP was on the wrong side of the debt ceiling debate since day one, but nevertheless...

Yes, lets...

Rafique. I'm used to disagreeing with you, but the mind-numbing intellectual dishonesty here is.. meh. You didn't even bother addressing the point of the hypocrisy.

As far as Biden and what he said, and what others have said:

Per: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60421.html

Vice President Joe Biden joined House Democrats in lashing tea party Republicans Monday, accusing them of having “acted like terrorists” in the fight over raising the nation’s debt limit, according to several sources in the room.

and

“We have negotiated with terrorists,” an angry Doyle said, according to sources in the room. “This small group of terrorists have made it impossible to spend any money.”

Biden, driven by his Democratic allies’ misgivings about the debt-limit deal, responded: “They have acted like terrorists.”

and of course, recently, as we approached Aug 2nd:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60202.html

and

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/opinion/the-tea-partys-war-on-america.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

The problem is less the "we don't like being called terrorists" angle, than the utter disgust that we would have been lectured over the Giffords shooting on how "our" political discourse on the right is to blame for some madman with no coherent political leanings (many if not most of them of the left), to have that self-same discourse turned up to "11" with nary a bat of an eyelash by the self-same asshats who ignored similar "discourse" from progressives directed towards Giffords as well.

All of this on the week that she - Giffords - returns.

If you wish to take a "pox on all of it" position, I'd disagree with you, but fine. That part is at least intellectually honest. Please do not conflate a disgust with the blatant hypocrisy of those who have lectured us on being "civil" while practicing no such thing, with us being too tender to like being called names when we've engaged in name calling as well.

Swing and a miss...

Darius, the issue at hand is the apparent hypocrisy in various people (of both parties, BTW) calling for a change in tone after the Giffords shooting. The main beef from conservatives is that they refuse to be lectured to by those who also engage in heated rhetoric. Here's the thing: this appears to be a conflation of two separate issues. After the Giffords shooting, many of both parties choose to see this as a sign that our rhetoric really had gotten out of hand, and it was time for bboth sides to cool things down. This was good, although it's clear that Loughner's murder spree was motivated by general lunacy, rather than any coherent ideology. Certain media types, a lot of them Left-of-center, missed this, and blamed the rhetoric of certain conservatives. This was wrong, and stupid, and conservatives have grounds to be pissed about that. I feel the need to say "certain media types," because there is a tendency by some top paint with a broad brush.

Now, I think it ought to be clear that the tone of political discourse, on both sides, has gotten fractious, to use Simon's word. This was true before the shooting, and true after--those media types proved it when they engaged in their stupidity. Palin and others had grounds to outarged over the attempts to link them to the shootings, but took things to far when they engaged in the same stupidity.

The problem is, there were certain people who chose to poison the debate further, and there were those who tried to at least try and change things. Members of both parties. Now, the Right chose then, and still chooses to conflate the whole thing, and continues to see the whole civility camapign as an attempt by ther Left to silence conservatives, and a hypocritical one, due to past statements by the Left. This conflation is itself an attempt to further poison the debate, by a)ignoring the Right's own history of heated rhetoric, b)doing so while playing the victim, and c)blaming the entire Left for the actions of a few.

And that is my point: You, and a apparently a lot of conservatives don't believe both sides need to cool down--you argue that it's the Left that needs to cool it. FWIW, those on the Left who have a reputation for rhetorical bomb-throwing feel the same way about the Right, and also rejected any equivalence. The examples of violent rhetoric by liberals that are continually trotted as proof that the whole thing is bunk, miss the point: Guys like Kos or Krugman never bought into the civility pledge, and probably never will.

Biden's mistake is that he didn't call out his colleagues. If conservatives don't want to be subjected name-calling, then the only sure-fire way to stop it is to strive for a better tone, and call out those on their side that take things too far. Same for the Left. However, if you're going to rewrite history, and stoke up fake outrage, as if only the other side's hands are dirty, then spare me. It's boring.

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