Troubling...

Nope, I can't say he's a good man, based on his actions.

However, that doesn't mean he's a *bad* man.

Both of those require action-- effort-- something behind you to back it up; votes-- even voting against anti-infanticide-- don't reach that level. Taking folks' money to vote "present" also doesn't reach said level.

Obama is so lukewarm I'm amazed that ice doesn't melt and sunlight doesn't dim until it hits a mild room temp.

That said, where are the folks saying that all the folks who voted for Obama are bad?

Come on, you're called "Stubborn Facts"-- link the quotes, and explain why they're wrong; after this long election season, I'm tired of folks interpreting what others are saying-- it seems like everyone is reading only what they want to hear.

Goldwater was right, of course, but it seems to me that that our task (as was his, truth be told) isn't to stop that emblem from attatching to our banner, it's to get rid of the stain that's already there. We've got to remind the electorate that the things the irresponsibility they didn't like over the last eight years were, in the main, heresies that we didn't like either. They were "man" problems rather than "idea" problems.

"When someone says their heart needs lifting, don't ask how come, ask how high."

Here's one vote to NOT link to those views. I'm comfortable with Pat describing the tone he has seen in the comments threads of red sites.

I'd like to draw a quick analogy. Sometimes when I watch sports talk, the panel discusses the topic of whether or not the fans are "right" to boo player X. Often they argue to the effect that a certain player has done enough and shown enough character that he has earned the right not to be booed.

But here's the thing. When fans boo, they are expressing how they feel. The notion that a sports fan would undertake to reason through whether or not he or she ought to boo is a little bit absurd to me.

For the time being, it's Ok to let the fans boo. Let them vent. Let it out. They're angry and disappointed. This is understandable. I applaud Pat for being a calm voice of reason here. Because booing doesn't accomplish much but to maybe make you feel better for a minute. The danger lies in becoming addicted to the emotional release that angry venting provides. This is one reason why I and many other folks don't like talk radio, irrespective of of its current ideological slant. Its fuel is anger and self-righteousness. When I run across it, I feel the anger first, and the unreason inherent in it, and I recoil.

Throughout our lives, most of us have had occasions where a discussion has turned into an argument. Consider the dynamics. Then ask yourself two simple questions:
? How many times was one of you persuaded to see it the other way because the other person got angry?

?How many times was the response to anger from one person met with more anger from the other?

Anger is important to feel, and to acknowledge. That's how you avoid popping a gasket. You vent. But just how useful is it to share anger? Instead, why not feel and acknowledge anger, and then turn it into comparatively calm resolve and a redoubled effort to communicate your views?

Pat is IMO 100% correct. If conservatives continue to believe that they are fundamentally more correct about political ideology and how it ought to manifest itself in government policies, then they MUST acknowledge their failure to persuade.
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I have often said, and oftener think, that this world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel. -Horace Walpole

I just saw his news conference(was doing other things when it occurred). Obama is making record time in changing my mind about him being honorable. His appointments so far and the Nancy Reagan crack in his news conference have me right on the edge of deciding he is full Chicago garbage. I think he is starting to show the true colors I feared he had.

I really wanted to give him a chance and I am still going to try; but a couple of more tasteless cracks and bad appointments will do it for me.

Updated: Well, Obama did apologize for the joke. However, to make the joke seems to show some of his real thought. I think he was comfortable with the sympathetic crowd (i.e. the press who laughed at it) and did get "careless" in letting some real feelings show. I give him credit for owning up to it. However, if these little slip ups continue. They are not a good sign.