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"This is not Trig Palin Truthism"

Submitted by Simon on Mon, 12/08/2008 - 9:18pm

Roxanna de Luca offers a qualified defense of the Obama citizenship litigation: a "lawsuit of this nature isn’t about invalidating the election, or even about Barack Obama; it’s about ensuring that basic, explicit constitutional requirements mean something." (Note that this isn't a defense of these particular litigants or these particular cases.) As she points out, the trouble with a blanket condemnation of litigating a candidate's eligibility is that this is one of several structural limits that would become effectively advisory if the courts won't intervene - in my view, a far worse alternative than voiding one election. The same would go for the McCain citizenship litigation, although regular readers will recall that Pat and I looked at that question and concluded that McCain was eligible for two independently-sufficient reasons.

To be sure, there's an argument that when the question is close, dubious, and is widely-known (all three conditions holding here), the electorate should be assumed to have considered and settled the question. I'm not sure that I agree with that, but it's a position one could take. Similarly, there are obvious cases where I hope all would agree the popular vote should not be determinative. If the Governator won a Presidential election, for example, even if the vote was unanimous I would support a ruling voiding the outcome (it would, presumably, be litigated by the losing candidate, thus satisfying standing requirements).

All will agree, though, that the best solution is to avoid such situations entirely, and on that score, de Luca says:

A better solution would be ... to find other, more constructive ways of avoiding this problem in the future. One possible solution would be for citizens to lobby their state Elections Boards (and legislatures) to pass laws which would require that candidates supply definitive proof of eligibility before being put on the ballot. Some states, such as Massachusetts, do this for state elections.... In light of the allegations of voter fraud, voter registration fraud, and possible voting by illegal immigrants, it would behoove Americans to push their states for more rigourous polling measures. A voter ID law, coupled with a requirement for candidates to prove their eligibility, may unhinge certain groups, but that is certainly preferable to this business of litigating elections before the Supreme Court.

I'd certainly support that.

Post facto:
Establishing eligibility (1/26/2011)

Eligibility screening unreasonable for Presidential race.

The idea of ID's might work for state and local. The problem with the Presidency is having to deal with 50 different ways of showing(not to mention the possibility of monkey business). The qualifications for the presidency are simple enough: 35 years of age and natural born. If someone has definitive proof to the contrary, they can bring it in Federal Court. So far, it has been suits trying to force Obama to prove something beyond what the records can do. The burden should be on the petitioners to show that something is amiss, no proof - dismiss with prejudice.

If there was proof, it would have been out there by now. So, even by this standard, the Governator would not stand up to scrutiny. This would also cover nutcase Alan Keyes, who does have standing as a candidate.

I agree with Jim, up to a point.

I agree with you Jim, that "The qualifications for the presidency are simple enough: 35 years of age and natural born." However, I have to show proof of residency and who I am to receive a simple driver's license. Any candidate should have to prove that they meet the qualifications to obtain said office, be they Senator, Representative or President. It is a honor to serve, not a right. The onus should be on the candidate.

That said, this deal with Pres. Elect Obama will most likely prove to be much ado about nothing.

I disagree about 'natural

I disagree about 'natural born' being a simple qualification. Haven't there been reams of discussions about what this really means, and hasn't its meaning been found to be rather obscure?

The only reason I say not to

The only reason I say not to do it for the President is that too many political games could be set to determine what is eligible in each state. I am not sure you could legally set a standard at the Federal level. The other reason for putting the burden of proof on the petitioner is to eliminate frivolous cases that are just designed to make a mess of the system, like the current set of cases.

In a perfect world, you could just show a birth certificate and that is it. However, we are in a far from perfect world. I do believe that if there is truly a question, the truth would come out.

"That said, this deal with

"That said, this deal with Pres. Elect Obama will most likely prove to be much ado about nothing.

Exactly. The popular vote certainly shouldn't matter in the case of an ineligible candidate, but my issue with this case has always been the wholesale lack of proof of the accusations against Obama. Aren't there rules for throwing out cases on the basis of shoddy evidence?

At the end of the day, I have no fear that this case will amount to anything, but I remain concerned that there are serious attempts to try and challenge Obama's eligibility.

Now, if we're talking about Hillary as SoS, that's a whole different matter.

reasonable proof

I'd rather have candidates provide reasonable proof, so that folks whose records had been messed up by no fault of their own were not unfairly excluded. Then, for a challenge, I'd want something fairly definitive in the way of disproof. Strong evidence they were born elsewhere, IOW.

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