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McCain's eligibility

Submitted by Simon on Sat, 02/16/2008 - 10:59pm

John McCain isn’t a popular guy in some circles, but now some of those who are opposed to him think they’ve found a silver bullet: a claim that McCain isn’t eligible to the Presidency because (they argue) he isn’t a natural-born citizen. Typical of the type is this post; Kevin Johnson has a useful comment here.

As I understand it, the rhetorical strategy is to note that McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone (“PCZ”), and citing 7 FAM 1116.1-4(c), argue that McCain isn’t a natural-born citizen because children born to U.S. citizen parents at overseas military bases and diplomatic installations aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, as the Fourteenth Amendment requires, so don’t attain citizenship as a birthright. Ordinarily this isn’t a big deal, because acting pursuant to its Art. I § 8 authority to legislate rules for naturalization, Congress has provided that such persons become naturalized citizens at birth, see 8 U.S.C. § 1401(c). However, the distinction might become a big deal in the one, unique, context where it’s not good enough to be a naturalized citizen rather than a natural-born one: candidacy for the Presidency.

The defects in the argument are pretty obvious. First, the citation to the Foreign Affairs Manual isn’t helpful; its discussion explicitly relates to the Fourteenth Amendment, but the relevant provision of the Constitution is Article II § 1. The Fourteenth Amendment only establishes that you can be a citizen by way of natural-born status or naturalization; it doesn't textually answer the instant question of what constitutes being “born ... in the United States.” Second, to connect 1116.1-4(c) to McCain, we’d have to assume that the PCZ was “abroad,” which is to say, “not part of the United States.” Even if McCain was born on a military base in the PCZ, 1116.1-4(c)'s whole point is that it's not the base that you look to, but the soil the base sits on. So 1116.1-4(c) is useless without the antecedent argument that the PCZ was a foreign sovereign and thus wasn't part of the United States. The problem with that argument, though, is that the PCZ has been thought of as a U.S. territory, certainly in the era in which McCain was born.1 If it is such, 1116.1-4(c) doesn’t apply. Still, these points deserve some elaboration, and the core point of the argument deserves consideration, because “[w]e deal here not with an ordinary election, but with an election for the President of the United States.” Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98, 112 (2000) (Rehnquist, C.J., concurring).

Behind the hokey conspiracy theorizing, the real point is that Article II § 1 requires that the President be a natural born citizen. It doesn’t say that the President must be born on American soil, and even if it did, it doesn't say what counts as “American soil.” When a legal text doesn’t define its terms, you have to figure out what a term means. Those of us who adhere to textualism and the legal process school do this by reasoning from text, structure, precedent, and an inquiry into the original public meaning of the text.

As to text, you can often use what’s recently come to be called intratextualism (new bottles for old wine, in my view - I had thought it an ordinary canon of construction that like words within a statute are presumed to bear like meaning, see Francis McCaffrey, Statutory Construction 40 § 13 (1953)) to resolve ambiguity. The idea is that if the text uses a word in one context where its meaning is clear, and the same word in another context where its meaning isn't clear, it probably means the same thing in both places. Intratextualist analysis “focuses on at least two clauses and highlights the link between them ... [and regards] strongly parallel language [a]s a strong (presumptive) argument for parallel interpretation.” So, for example, if you weren't sure what it meant to “ordain and establish” inferior courts in the Article III vesting clause, you could try and work out what “ordain and establish” meant in the preamble, and infer it means the same thing in Article III. For that analysis, see Steven Calabresi & Gary Lawson, The Unitary Executive, Jurisdiction Stripping, and the Hamdan Opinions, 107 Colum. L. Rev. 1002 (2007). Or for that matter, if you weren't sure what it meant for the executive power to be “vested” in the President, you could consider what it means for the legislative powers granted or the judicial power to be “vested” in Congress and the Supreme Court respectively. But intratextualism doesn’t help here, because the Constitution only uses the term “natural-born Citizen” in the instant context. And structural analysis doesn't seem helpful either. So we’re left with the original public meaning of the term: what would educated persons contemporaneous to the Constitution have understood “natural born Citizen” to mean? As the Supreme Court said in the Wong Kim Ark case, the term “natural-born citizen of the United States,” so far as we’re concerned with it here, “must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the constitution.” 169 U.S. at 654. What did that term mean at common law?

According to the Supreme Court – albeit nearly a century after the fact – it was, “[a]t common-law, … never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also.” Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 167 (1874). Somewhat closer to the time, Blackstone said that in England, “[n]atural-born subjects are such as are born within the dominions of the crown of England....” But that just kicks the can down the road: what was the extent of the “dominions of the crown of England”? Immediately prior to the Revolutionary War, “[t]he Crown’s dominions ... consisted of territories under the Crown’s sovereignty, such as England, Wales, and Ireland; the town of Berwick; the islands of Jersey, Guernsey, and Man; and the North American colonies. Although many of those territories exercised substantial legal autonomy from England and thus formed no part of its ‘kingdom’ or its ‘realm,’ all were sovereign territories of the Crown.” Boumediene v. Bush, No. 06-1195, Respondent's Brief, 27 (citations omitted) (see also ibid. (quoting Hale’s The Prerogatives of the King as defining “dominions” as consisting of territories “such as the king hath in right of the crown of England as parcel thereof or annexed thereto” (emphasis deleted))). Wong Kim Ark makes the apt point: as the common law stood in 1788,

aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born. … The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established.

169 U.S. at 658. So the original understanding, it seems clear, was that one became a natural-born citizen of England even if born outside of England itself, so long as born in territory subject to the sovereignty of England. So it seems reasonable to assume that the original meaning of “natural born Citizen” was basically the same in those recently-English colonies, viz., something to the effect of “within the dominion of the United States.” But what would “within the dominion of the United States” mean?

As it turns out, it can’t be as simple as just saying “within any U.S. state,” which is where we start to circle back to the point about the status of the PCZ. Just as the dominion of the Crown extended beyond the shores of England, our Constitution clearly contemplates that the United States will have territory within its dominion that isn’t a state: there’s the federal district clause in Article I, and Article IV § 3, which empowers Congress to “dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States....” If McCain had been born in the District of Columbia, presumably no one would contest his eligibility to the Presidency, despite his not having been born in any U.S. state. It’s a no-brainer: if you tried to argue that D.C., for all its peculiarities, wasn’t American soil, people would look at you funny. Yet concede that much, and you concede that the dominion of the United States isn’t coextensive with the aggregate dominions of the individual states. From its inception, the United States had territories to administer – that’s why the clause in Article IV exists. So what about persons born in territories other than D.C.?

As it turns out, no President has been born on land that wasn’t at that time either a state, or one of the thirteen colonies (although, as Kevin Johnson points out in the post linked at top, one-time presidential candidate Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona territory three years before its admission to the Union as a state). But suppose Abraham Lincoln had been born in Indiana Territory, instead of a few miles south in Kentucky (in 1809, Kentucky was a state, but Indiana was still a U.S. territory). Would Lincoln have been ineligible to the Presidency? To answer “yes,” you’d have to argue that the territories weren’t part of the United States, even though they were within the geographic boundaries of what we now think of as the United States, and even though, as Chancellor Kent noted, Congress has “supreme power in the government of the[ territories belonging to the United States], depending on the exercise of their sound discretion.” However, if the answer to the question is “no,” as I think it probably is, then the only question seeming to remain is whether the PCZ was a “territory” of the United States and therefore within its dominion.

The status of the PCZ is determined by looking to the instrument that created it. The United States acquired the Canal Zone by virtue of the 1904 Hay-Bunau Varilla Treaty. In Article III thereof, Panama ceded to the U.S. “all the rights, power and authority within the [canal] zone ... which the United States would possess and exercise[ ] if it were the sovereign of the territory within which said lands and waters are located....” By way of comparison, consider a contemporary treaty, the 1903 Cuban-American Treaty. By terms of that treaty, “Cuba hereby leases to the United States, for the time required for the purposes of ... naval stations" (emphasis added), the territory we now call Guantanamo Bay. Although it’s true that this is “no ordinary lease,” Rasul v. Bush, 542 U.S. 466, 487 (Kennedy, J., concurring), conferring as it does “complete jurisdiction and control in perpetuity, and the United States has subsequently exercised all the incidents of sovereignty over Guantanamo [Bay],” Boumediene v. Bush, No. 06-1195, Pet. Brief, 17 n.16 (internal quotation marks omitted), the contracting parties nevertheless “recognize[d] the continuance of the ultimate sovereignty of the Republic of Cuba” over Guantanamo, subject to the limitation that “the United States shall exercise complete jurisdiction and control over and within said areas” for the duration of the lease.

The Hay-Bunau Varilla Treaty is more explicit: it gave us “all the rights, power and authority within the [canal] zone ... which the United States would possess and exercise[ ] if it were the sovereign of the territory within which said lands and waters are located....” Still, that could probably be read two ways. You could say that the terms of the treaty seem to very strongly suggest that the United States would be either sovereign over the territory, or functionally so. That's the view that the Supreme Court has taken, see, e.g., O'Connor v. United States, 479 U.S. 27, 28 (1986) ("[f]rom 1904 to 1979, the United States exercised sovereignty over the Panama Canal"). But it wouldn't be irrational to say that the assignment of “all the rights, power and authority within the [canal] zone ... which the United States would possess and exercise[ ] if it were the sovereign” (emphasis added) implicitly denies that the treaty conveys actual sovereignty over the PCZ to the United States, rather than power equivalent to it.

And here I must end, because “dominion” almost certainly implies “sovereignty over,” so to really probe this question we’d have to get into an exegesis of concepts of sovereignty (and more particularly still, what the prevailing conception was in 1788), a question about which volumes and volumes have been written, and that we are not going to resolve in this place on this day. So with those thoughts, I leave it to the reader's contemplation to determine whether they think the PCZ was more like Guantanamo Bay or the Indiana Territory.

In the comments: Pat concurs in the judgment - and goes into more detail on the point here. To emphasize, we both agree on the relevant criterion, and although we each get there by a different route, reach the same result.

Update by Pat: Welcome to all the new visitors! We've added a quick update post to include a link to the New York Times story which has stirred up so much interest in this little non-story. While you're here, please kick the tires and check us out. We're not always this right, this early, but we try. Many thanks to the following bloggers for their links to this post: Patterico, Jammie Wearing Fool, Sister Toldjah, In From the Cold.

Post facto:
Eligibility, redux (5/2/08)
Line of succession, redux (7/28/08)
Houston, we have a problem (8/19/08)

  1. 1. See, e.g. McConaughey v. Morrow, 263 U.S. 39, 45-6 (1923); Cunard S.S. Co. v. Mellon, 262 U.S. 100, (1923); McDonald v. United States, 279 U.S. 12, 19 n.1 (1929) (residence in the PCZ by aliens "may be considered residence within the United States"); United States v. Beach, 324 U.S. 193, 195 (1945).

I think someone's either

I think someone's either desperately seeking a loophole or pimping the opposition into stupidity.

One would think that the question would be settled by the law that applied at the time of McCain's birth--his status of being a "natural-born citizen" would simply be having been born a citizen. If he was born a "natural-born citizen" he would remain same unless directly stripped of same. So let's go REALLY far back and check out what the original interpretation of "natural-born citizen" was, and how it changed before McCain's birth. We do love original construction, right?

"And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States". --First Congress, Act of March 26th, 1790, 1 Stat. 103.

The law did not change appreciably before 1936 save to impose some requirements on the children of expatriates, particularly if only one parent was a citizen. Later changes provided some exemptions from those residency requirements for active-duty military personnel and for other government personnel whose lack of immediate prior residence was due to their government service.

McCain was indubitably a "natural-born citizen" of the United States at birth by the original construction of the First Congress, which construction continued through the time of his birth and beyond. The only things that could conceivably have removed him from that status do not appear to have occured or he would not be a citizen at all.

Anyone trying to claim that a distinguished and decorated military serviceman, himself the child of a distinguished and decorated military serviceman, who happened to be born to two natural-born US citizens on a US military base because of that service, is IMHO doing nothing but boosting McCain's ballot returns. And nothing else.

Which might even be the idea.

(In both my family and my wife's family there have been several born overseas on military bases. One is technically wanted in Turkey for never showing up for their draft when he reached age--but he never accepted Turkish citizenship. And will never travel to Turkey!)

Yeah, I think they're

Yeah, I think they're barking up the wrong tree here. Even if you could make a legal argument along these lines -- which looks like quite a stretch -- it would be viewed as unfair by a broad swath of the American people to disqualify McCain after he won the nomination. Being born on a military base because your parent is serving the country isn't a reason to think you're less of an American. If anything, it makes you more of one.

Can't resist

John McCain isn?t a popular guy

here's a nice set of tables that puts his "popularity" in perspective.
Chris

McCain citizenship kerfluffle

Reductio ad absurdum or begging the question? Take your pick as they both seem to apply here. Of course, any military installation is under United States jurisdiction as is any formally administered territory; I believe the Canal Zone, in McCain's case, qualified as both. The question answers itself and only a low life political pedant would try a cheap shot like this. Other than this, I have no strong feelings on the subject.

[Sorry for the delay in this appearing; comments from unregistered users are held for moderation and sundays are sometimes a slow day for admins! I've updated the timestamp to allow this to appear in "recent comments." ~Simon]

You waste too much time...

These idiots are from the same batch that think that the 14th Amendment was never validly adopted, and so they don't have to pay income tax like the rest of us, or that if you put a © symbol after their name, their creditors can't sue them for their debts.

People who are citizens by virtue of 8 USC 1401 aren't "naturalized." They are natural-born citizens by right of birth. That it may be a statutory right rather than a Constitutional one is immaterial.

If the law in effect at the time of McCain's birth did not make him a citizen, and the law was later changed to sort of "retroactively" make him a citizen by birth, then maybe, just maybe, these whackos might have stumbled onto some semi-legitimate possible legal analysis. But that's not the case. John McCain has been a citizen since the moment he was born. Period. Thus, he is a natural-born citizen of the United States.

Given the anti-immigration tenor of much of that website, I suspect the same idiots have at other times made almost the opposite argument made by many anti-immigration forces today, that the Constitution does not require that children of illegal aliens born within the geographic area of the United States be considered citizens.

"These idiots are from the

"These idiots are from the same batch..."

And, perhaps, from the parallel batch to those who think Obama is a secret Muslim. There's a tinfoil hat to match every political passion.

I'm stealing that for future

I'm stealing that for future use!

There's a tinfoil hat to match every political passion.

Or the same batch

who think Hillary is a secret NEOCON and that Obama is the Second Coming....

Yes, there are many batches and tinfoil hats and they have little remorse in eating their own.

Pat, I share your general

Pat, I share your general assessment of the people pushing this meme. I generally agree with the proposition that one shouldn't feed the trolls - I wouldn't waste time deconstructing the arguments of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, for example. But I think there's an exception to the rule: IMHO, when a meme appears that is totally wrong, and dangerously so, but isn't so entirely absurd that it might give a reasonable person pause, in those circumstances, I disagree that it isn't worth spending a little time to shoot down the meme. Particularly given our prominence in google's ranking - no prizes for guessing what comes up first if you google "mccain eligibility facts"! So if I can help nip this in the bud, I think it's worthwhile.

Respectfully, I don't agree with your discussion of the naturalization statute. I'm handcuffed by what I think the original meaning of "natural born citizen" is, per the discussion in the post. The Fourteenth Amendment offers two routes to U.S. citizenship: being born in the United States and being naturalized in the United States pursuant to whatever rules Congress provides, and in either case subject to the jurisdiction thereof. I think that text fairly obviously encapsulates the distinction between natural-born citizens vs. naturalized citizens that Articles I and II envision.

Consider a military base in, say, Germany. It's subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but it is not "in" the United States within the original meaning of either the Fourteenth Amendment or Article II. In both 1788 and 1868, to be a natural-born citizen of a country was to be born on soil subject to the sovereignty of that country, as I read it, and to be "in" the United States meant being in territory subject to U.S. sovereignty. Congress has undoubted authority to provide that someone can become a naturalized citizen if they are born on that military base, from birth if it so chooses. But if it's necessary to be born in the United States to be a natural-born citizen, I don't see how Congress could declare foreign soil to be "in" America. Put another way, if Congress can't expand the original jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, where would it get the power to expand the original meaning of "natural-born"? (That's also a problem I have with the citation of the immigration act 1790: it seems unlikely, but in view of Marbury not impossible, that an act of the first Congress would be ultra vires, and in any event, that the act felt it necessary to (attempt to) confer status as natural-born citizens on persons born outside the U.S. strongly supports my premise that the original understanding of "natural-born citizen" meant "born under sovereignty of" - see the exception proves the rule). The definition of "in America," it seems to me, can only be expanded by the acquisition of territory subject to American sovereignty, not by statute pursuant to the naturalization power, a power confined to the second prong of the Fourteenth Amendment's citizenship clause.

Take Guantanamo Bay, for example: the military base there is unquestionably under American jurisdiction and control, but it's not under American sovereignty: the soil is subject to the sovereignty of Cuba. That's explicitly stipulated in the treaty. When you're at Guantanamo, you are not in the United States. To illustrate this, suppose JTF Guantanamo hires locals to come onto the base and carry out, I don't know, some kind of task. And suppose a woman working there under that proviso goes into labor; they take her to the base hospital and she gives birth. Is her child a U.S. citizen assuming, arguendo, no applicable statute? If Guantanamo is "in" the United States simply because it's a U.S. military base, the answer is yes: the child was born in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction. I would say that the answer is pretty obviously no.

I'm by no means throwing in my lot with the loonies. And I'm not for a second disparaging those who serve abroad or who were born abroad as a result. But I don't think that I can agree that Congress has the authority to expand the definition of natural-born citizens, as opposed to creating broad rules for naturalized citizens, up to and including naturalization ab partum no matter where born. This distinction makes absolutely no difference in any conceivable circumstance except this one. I agree that McCain is a natural-born citizen of the United States, but I must maintain that he is such because he was born in territory over which the United States held sovereignty at the time.

"When someone says their heart needs lifting, don't ask how come, ask how high."

Of what bearing is the 14th?

I didn't mean the subject line as personally as it sounded, of course... I meant just, as you say, that we shouldn't feed the trolls. What constitutes feeding of the trolls and what constitutes performing a valid public service by refuting even a stupid argument is, of course, always a matter of judgment, not an absolute. I did see that at least one commenter at reddit.com cited your post in an effort to say that the notion had been thoroughly discredited. :)

The 14th just isn't relevant to the discussion, as you pointed out in your original post. It does not elaborate on or illustrate the meaning of "natural born citizen" as used in 1789. It does not tell us anything about the intent of the original framers. It also does not purport to describe the exclusive methods for defining "natural born citizen." The argument made depends on the 14th defining 2 categories of citizens: (1) those "born in the United States" and (2) those who are "naturalized." The argument relies on claiming that by defining those two categories, and only those two, then the drafters of the 14th were implicitly amending or clarifying the qualifications for the presidency, creating an equivalency between "natural born citizen" and being "born in the United States."

But of course the 14th really doesn't seem to have been intended to redefine or clarify or even address the qualifications to be president. It is conceptually quite easy to imagine multiple categories of "citizen" for Constitutional purposes. There is nothing in the 14th that says that those are the only constitutional categories of citizens. Certainly it would be entirely erroneous to rely in any way on the 14th to determine whether an act of the First Congress was ultra vires.

But your analysis of the earlier court cases is flawed. Boumediene is irrelevant unless you have first determined that "natural born citizen" is equivalent to "born in the United States," and that "in" really meant a geographical limitation, with no exceptions. You turn to Wong Kim Ark for what the phrase "natural born citizen" means, but the case is insufficient for the purpose to which you put it. Indeed, the section you quote actually serves to establish my point:

every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state

The court recognizes that the "natural citizenship" of children of foreign agents does not depend on the geographic location of their birth, but on the citizenship of their parents. If you are a child of an ambassador, you are not an English subject even if born on English soil. Note that it doesn't say "unless born within a foreign embassy otherwise in England." It is the parents' status, not the physical location of the birth, that is relevant. To read it otherwise would be to say that the Court was holding that the children of British ambassadors were stateless waifs. The British in the 18th century had deep experience with ambassadors and foreign agents; they had more, most likely, than any other nation in the world at the time. Is there any case which says that under the common law of Britain, the children of British ambassadors born abroad were not subjects of the King or Queen? Of course not.

The only possible reading of "natural born citizen" is "citizen by virtue of the circumstances of birth," not "born [physically] in the United States." The poor wording choice of the drafters of the 14th is lamentable, but does not change the meaning of the original qualifications established to be President.

As I said before, if the law at the time of John McCain's birth did not make him a citizen, and a new law were passed to retroactively declare him a citizen despite not being one by the laws in effect at the time, then that would pose a problem and would probably make him a "naturalized" citizen. But because he was a citizen by virtue of the laws in effect when he was born, under the meaning of the phrase "natural born citizen" in common legal usage in 1789 (as demonstrated by the Wong Kim Ark case), then John McCain is a natural born citizen of the United States no matter what the legal status of the Panama Canal Zone was at the time.

I just want to echo...

But because he was a citizen by virtue of the laws in effect when he was born, under the meaning of the phrase "natural born citizen" in common legal usage in 1789 (as demonstrated by the Wong Kim Ark case), then John McCain is a natural born citizen of the United States no matter what the legal status of the Panama Canal Zone was at the time.

I just want to echo what Pat says there, though from my own admittedly non-attorney angle. The Naturalization Act of 1790 that I originally quoted above is directly pertinent, being about the only time that the phrase "natural born citizen" appears in Congressional action contemporaneous with the passage of the Constitution. The superseding 1795 statute drops the phrase "natural born," but continues to clearly designate the children born overseas of US citizen parents (whose fathers are not non-residential expatriates) as being citizens by birthright (jus sanguinis) as compared to being naturalized citizens. If you are born as a citizen of the United States by bloodline right, you are a "natural born citizen," as compared to a "naturalized" citizen. (One can also be a natural-born citizen by place of birth--jus soli--which in turn establishes the roots of jus sanguinis for YOUR offspring, but the two are NOT mutually exclusive categories.) The First Congress made that clarification, that jus sanguinis applied in such cases, and you won't get any closer to the original meaning of the phrase than that regardless of how much loopholing and pettifogging is employed.

The phrase itself originated in a 1787 letter from John Jay to Geo. Washington, that said: "Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen."

So we have three uses within those three years, and of the three only the middle one, the usage in the Constitution, is in the least ambiguous, and that through a lack of elaboration. Jay's meaning is clear--those whose primary allegiance was to another government at any time in their lives should not be C-in-C, regardless of current citizenship status. The meaning of the Naturalization Act of 1790 is clear as well--naturalization is not required of overseas-born children of American citizen parents, as they are to be "considered as natural born citizens."

That's as close to the original meaning as you are going to get, and pretty clearly leads directly to a well-defined jus sanguinis as the citizenship standard for overseas birth. Congress has at various times diddled with exemptions and exclusions to that, but at no time have the details of the exemptions to that standard--the racial/ethnic exclusions, the parental expatriate exclusions, the mixed-parental-citizenship exclusions, the residency exclusions, etc.--ever applied to John McCain, so cases going into those are off the point. A citizen by US birthright is a "natural-born citizen," there is no doubt at all that McCain is such a citizen by birthright, and jus soli is not the sole standard in defining that, which is what the claims against him depend on.

Now, I could be wrong, of course, not being an attorney, but you would have great trouble convincing me of it.

Wow

I thought anyone who was born to a US citizen was automatically a US citizen him/herself. I learn new stuff all the time over here.

You think that's muddy, look

You think that's muddy, look up the rules for jus sanguinis claims for Israeli citizenship.

On feeding the trolls...

When I suggested not feeding the trolls, I had no idea that the New York Times itself would wind up picking up this non-story. Perhaps they weren't satisfied with the number of voters they drove into is camp last time, and wanted to send him some more... In retrospect, clearly an excellent decision to post on the subject, to set the record straight firmly from the get go.

Citizenship

Oh, I get it, the NYTimes thinks that children of illegals ARE citizens, children of servicemembers are NOT citizens. Silly me!

They are correct on one thing, illegals are more likely to be on their side than servicemembers. This will explain why the left did not want servicemember absentee ballots to count.

Flawed arguments abound here.

Especially in terms of the actual state of the PCZ, application of the FAM, and complete ignoring of parts of 8 USC.

See http://muddythoughts.blogspot.com/2008/02/panmanchurian-candidate-mccain.html for a much better explanantion.

Not at all...

First of all, obnoxious statements like "flawed argument abound here" are not terribly welcome here. More to the point, "look over here" is not engaging in debate. If you want to debate, specify exactly what you think the flaws of our argument are, not just that they "abound."

The arguments at the site you mention are what's seriously flawed. First of all, State Department regulations have absolutely NOTHING to do with anything. Any reference to State Dept. regulations is utterly irrelevant to the interpretation of the Constitution.

The 14th Amendment is similarly irrelevant. It does not purport to amend the Constitutional provision relating to the qualifications for the Presidency. It does not say that it's "born in" category is equivalent in meaning and scope to "natural born" in the presidential provision.

Those are but two fundamental misconceptions made by most people claiming that McCain isn't a "natural born" citizen. I'll let Simon skewer the undoubted flaws in your arguments about the status of the Panama Canal Zone.

Statutory Construction

You refer to Francis McCaffrey's Statutory Contruction and I've been looking everywhere to find a copy. He was my grandfather and died when I was young and I would really love to get a hold of the book. I'd appreciate any help!
Thanks,
Michelle

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