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Remember when people asked why Palin wasn't rushing to do MSM interviews?

Submitted by Simon on Thu, 09/11/2008 - 6:01pm

Here's one reason - Charlie Gibson dowdifies a quote:

GIBSON: You said recently, in your old church, "Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God." Are we fighting a holy war?

PALIN: You know, I don't know if that was my exact quote.

GIBSON: Exact words.

PALIN: But the reference there is a repeat of Abraham Lincoln's words when he said -- first, he suggested never presume to know what God's will is, and I would never presume to know God's will or to speak God's words.

But what Abraham Lincoln had said, and that's a repeat in my comments, was let us not pray that God is on our side in a war or any other time, but let us pray that we are on God's side.

That's what that comment was all about, Charlie.

Yes, those were Palin's "exact words" - just not all of them. Gibson is misrepresenting the quote with the material omission of the rest of the sentence from which those words are wrenched. Palin did not say "Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God"; she said, "we need to pray that our leaders, that our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God." The words Gibson left out utterly change the meaning of the quote from a prayer ("we must pray that they are") to an assertion ("they are").

Dowdify: "The willful omission of one or more words so the meaning of the statement is no longer understood but that the statement suits the needs of the writer in launching an ad hominem attack whether or not the construction is truthful or grammatically complete."

(HT: Rev)

Added: LMAO - too dowdified for ABC!

I saw that, and it really does pay to look at the context of the

full quote. She is seeking God's will, not asserting it, and it appears that the context is being ignored, and the false image is created of Palin as a religious fanatic and a warmonger.

I also thought the "holy war" remark was a problem, but I think Revenant explains what's going on, a bit further down:

Gibson seemed confused by the distinction between (a) thinking that God has a plan and praying that our mission in Iraq is furthering it and (b) thinking that we're fighting a holy war. I don't think that's a distinction most Christians (or Jews or Muslims, for that matter) would find confusing. The belief that God has a plan for the world is hardly controversial, and I thought Palin clearly explained that that's what she was talking about. Mind you, I think that's a load of hooey, but then I'm an atheist. Most Americans actually do believe in that stuff.

Indeed.

"In the world you will find tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world."

John 16:33

C'mon....Charlie was just upholding the media tradition

....you know...fake but accurate.

I watched the web version

Thoughts:
1) She did ok
2) I always pride myself on doing well when "Jeopardy" is on TV but I had one of those "uh ohh, I don't know this one" moments when Charlie Gibson asked "Do you agree with the Bush Doctrine?" My first thought "Did I miss it? Is there an actual written-out 'Bush doctrine'?". And that says nothing as to whether one agrees with it or not.
3) The NATO questions points out the very problems with Georgia and NATO membership. As a running mate, what else could you answer if your "leader" (you know the guy at the top of the ticket) has already said he favors Georgia membership in NATO. She did seem to be more enthusiastic with Ukraine membership than Georgia membership.
4) God is on our side. That was the usual no win "I have a 'christian perspective' and you have an incorrect understanding of the Christian perspective" sort of discussion. "Yes and God hates gays too! There you have your headline for tomorrow."
5) Charlie, lose the glasses or at least put them on one of those chains to complete the image.
6) Do we now feel better that Gov. Palin has had a "tough" interview?
7) Rorschach!
Chris

Chris, that struck me, too,

Chris, that struck me, too, and I thought her answer was dead on. What the hell is the "Bush Doctrine"? If its wikipedia entry is to be believed, it's a fuzzy, amorphous term mainly used by Bush's critics to describe whatever bee is in their bonnest this week. It has less than half a million hits on google - if this is the best the critics can get out of that interview, they're trying to squeeze out more juice than there is orange.

"When someone says their heart needs lifting, don't ask how come, ask how high."

Redux

A re-post of my rant over at Volokh, but cleaned up a bit.

GIBSON: And you didn't say to yourself, "Am I experienced enough? Am I ready? Do I know enough about international affairs? Do I -- will I feel comfortable enough on the national stage to do this?"

PALIN: I didn't hesitate, no.

GIBSON: Didn't that take some hubris?

Excuse me?

Did anyone ask Obama what his foreign policy experience is? Did they interrogate him on whether or not he's met with heads of state? Does anyone even think it matters if one has met with these people before - like they'll refuse an invite from the President of the United States if they haven't met him or her before?

Was he pushed to make noise about how Chicago is close to Canada, or how Hawaii is closer to Asia than the California coast, before the press deems him worthy to run this country?

I may have missed part of the primary season, but I don't think anyone asked Mitt Romney or Ron Paul those questions. They weren't forced to make lame comments about Texas being right next to Mexico (and having millions of Mexican citizens to boot) or having run the Olympics to get over the foreign policy experience hurdle.

Arkansas is not exactly the foreign-policy capital of the world, but Bill Clinton did not seem to come under too much fire for having experience that is limited to eating Chinese food.

John Kerry, whose foreign knowledge is limited to varietals of French Champagne and villas in Tuscany, did not have to demonstrate himself to be competent to meet with heads of state. His running mate's main talent seems to be channeling dead babies while suing doctors, and he certainly did not have to justify himself as being one heartbeat away from the Presidency in a dangerous world.

Men are presumed competent and confident; Sarah Palin, incapable and prideful. SUCH CRAP.

material change

I agree Simon, that's a material change. I'm glad this caught up to me, because all I had heard before was the extract. It's good to know that Palin understands the Abe Lincoln point of hoping that WE are on God's side. Far too few do, IMO.

I also think the juxtaposition employed in lipstickgate is a material misrepresentation (even though I'm skeptical that Obama's choice of words was inadvertent.)

What these episodes suggest to me is that the media, whatever other biases they may also harbor, are strongly on their OWN side. They're shopping for gotchas. And that's a problem.
__________
I have often said, and oftener think, that this world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel. -Horace Walpole

Hey, debunking lies,

Hey, debunking lies, distortions and misrepresentations about Palin is what we're here for. ;)

"When someone says their heart needs lifting, don't ask how come, ask how high."

I agree with you that the

I agree with you that the media's cutting the subsequent line from Obama's comments is material misrepresentation. As I said in my post on the subject earlier in the week, however, I think that the subsequent line actually supports the case that he was referring to Palin, not undercuts it.

"When someone says their heart needs lifting, don't ask how come, ask how high."

re-contextualizing

If you hear the whole of what Obama was discussing during the quote in question, it's quite clear he's talking about McCain's attempts to distance himself from Bush, not Sarah Palin.

However, the fact that folks begin chuckling as soon as the word lipstick is uttered strongly suggests to me that either he knew what he was doing, or else should have. Between those two choices, the latter would worry me more when it comes to political competence.

The former really doesn't trouble me. This still aint beanbag, after all. Obama didn't call Palin a pig. Period. But he signaled that he can make lipstick jokes. Whoever has made whatever lipstick connections they've made are working strictly from their own mileage.

__________
I have often said, and oftener think, that this world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel. -Horace Walpole

Well, as I explained in the

Well, as I explained in the post I mentioned (this one), although I agree that the quote has to be heard or read in context, I totally disagree as to what effect the context has on the meaning of the speech. If all we had was the quote that FoxNews et al ran endlessly, I would be inclined to agree with you, but looking at it in context, I lean more towards thinking it was a deliberate slam on both Palin and McCain, for the reasons explained. At any rate, let's not hijack this thread - if more discussion's needed on this point, let's move it over to the comments on the post linked above.

"When someone says their heart needs lifting, don't ask how come, ask how high."

probably not

Nahh, not unless you think that Obama was trying to imply that Palin is herself a pig.
__________
I have often said, and oftener think, that this world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel. -Horace Walpole

Palin's interview

Living in AK I've seen quite a bit of Palin on TV these past couple of years. Gibson's interview is possibly the worst I have seen her come off. (Not that I thought she did all that badly). She is very personable when she is on local TV.

I would have to guess a couple of factors were in play. She had a script to play to and was constrained to a group of set answers. Gibson, or ABC, was unwilling to engage with her for fear of seeming "soft". I think once the handlers trust her enough to let her go off script she will do a lot better. I think she was being very careful not to screw up.

Again, I am not a huge fan of Palin. I didn't think she should have been on the Repub ticket for Gov of AK, and even voted for her Dem opponent, but she CAN and DOES handle herself very well in front of the media (local media anyway).

Since I am voting for McCain anyway, because he is much closer to the center to my view, I would like to see Palin do well in front of the nation. It's nice to have a dog in the hunt even if it wasn't the one I would have chosen :)

**Obama's total nuclear disarmament policy is one near and dear to me. If I heard him state that world overpopulation was a problem he would like to tackle also I would probably bail on McCain. Fairyland? Possibly. But taking the survival of humanity as a whole these two issues are the only ones I see as absolutely critical. I give Obama credit for bringing half of the equation in to the public discourse, even if it is in a minimal way.

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