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Jamil Hussein Lives!

Submitted by Tully on Sat, 06/30/2007 - 3:04pm

Just a reminder to NEVER believe any AP reports that are credited to "Iraqi police officials" without seeing some independent confirmation. Demand named sourcing. And then verify that the source actually exists.

Bless you, Mr. Muir

Confederate Yankee has the take-down.

What does it say about AP that Agence France Presse has higher standards? Is it incompetence, indifference, or intentional?

No, really!

Because it's NOT like this is the first time.

(Ace adds some brief but tasty snark, and in related news The Weasel Times and Stoat Intelligencer has an intel report on the new terrorist weapons.)

UPDATE: Greyhawk, currently in Iraq, throws in his several million cents worth.

UPDATE: Both Associated Press and Reuters have retracted their stories. Bob Owens (Confederate Yankee) has more thoughts on the affair. Key grafs:

Remarkably, these news organizations continue to employ the same reporters and editors that have published multiple erroneous or highly suspect claims, or who have consistently cited discredited or disreputable sources.

Further, these wire services continue to employ newsgathering techniques that rely upon anonymous sources with little or no direct involvement with the story being reported, and often publish these claims as absolute fact, without any indication they are publishing what is often, at best, hearsay.

The MNF-I refutation of the Um al-Abeed decapitation story states that the claim was “completely false and fabricated by unknown sources.”

That isn’t exactly true. Both Reuters and the Associated Press presumably know precisely who their sources were for this story, as they know who their sources were for other discredited stories.

They just as they certainly know, or should know, which of their indigenous reporters—”stringers,” in industry parlance—have been providing these suspect or discredited stories, and which editors have allowed these stories to press based upon the flimsiest of evidence, which often does not meet the service’s own stated reportorial standards.

NOTE:

When the "Burning Sunni" story broke, I joined many in piling on at the lack of verifiable sourcing for such a pro-insurgent "scare" piece. As well I might, for later investigation by independent sources found that almost no particulars of the story were true, that it was at best a gross exaggeration of much less nasty events, with no Burning Sunnis involved at all. It also showed that one of the named sources in the story, "Police Captain Jamil Hussein," could not be verified to even exist, although he had appeared as a named source in a total of 61 recent AP Iraq stories. This led to the speculation that AP was reporting third-hand unverified hearsay (or worse) from stringers of dubious honesty and agenda as factual news.

AP was "called out" on the matter, and vociferously maintained that Jamil Hussein was exactly who they said he was, that all their Iraq stories were multiply-sourced and verified, and that they did not employ pseudonyms, etc. After much shouting, they identified the "Jamil Hussein" source and provided "confirmation" in the form of an artfully-phrased self-exculpatory story by Steven Hurst--one that itself had gaping holes in it, and was immediately disputed by sources named. At which point AP's defenders immediately began trumpeting that the "right wing blogs" were wrong, and AP was saintly-honest, that Jamil Hussein was real, etc., etc.

But when the dust settled, it turned out that the "Jamil Hussein" identified by AP as said source was not named "Jamil Hussein" at all. His real name was Jamil Gulaim Innad XX XXXXXXX (redacted for the security of that poor sucker--yes, I have the name, and "Hussein" is no part of it). In addition, the person identified denied having ever been an AP source. That latter can be justified as avoiding charges for unauthorized communications, though that's speculation. But his name was most assuredly NOT Jamil Hussein, as so strongly and repeatedly claimed by AP. And the specific spectacular elements that made it a page-one story in over 700 media outlets had still been debunked, or remained completely unverifiable.

AP's own "STATEMENT OF NEWS VALUES AND PRINCIPLES" reads:

Nothing in our news report – words, photos, graphics, sound or video – may be fabricated. We don't use pseudonyms, composite characters or fictional names, ages, places or dates.

...When we're wrong, we must say so as soon as possible. When we make a correction in the current cycle, we point out the error and its fix in the editor's note. A correction must always be labeled a correction in the editor's note. We do not use euphemisms such as "recasts," "fixes," "clarifies" or "changes" when correcting a factual error.

"Jamil Hussein" was an undisclosed pseudonym, at best. Period. AP has never acknowledged this nor issued any retraction or correction. And over forty stories where "Jamil Hussein" was the only named source remain partly to completely unverified, with much of the remainder having been majorly debunked with solid first-hand sourcing, including the one that brought his pseudonym into the public eye. There is still no solid refutation of the idea that much of AP's Iraq reporting was indeed (and given recent events, may at times still be) third-hand unverified hearsay (or worse) from stringers of dubious honesty and agenda being promoted as verified factual news.

AP continues to proclaim their moral rectitude, though some of us might spell that differently. And that's why I don't believe AP Iraq reporting without verifiable named sourcing and independent confirmation.

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Tully, you really need to

Tully, you really need to give the AP/media bashing up. Iraq is about to fly apart into a bloody civil war, despite your months of denying that it was that bad and that the press was getting everything wrong). The press sometimes gets stuff wrong in a chaotic war zone, but they've mostly called it correctly here.

In any event, I'll believe the AP over Confederate Yankee or Michelle Malkin (when is her apology to the AP over Jamil coming?).

So, Justin...

The AP is caught, yet again, publishing an absolute falsehood, and your response is to castigate its critics?

And I thought the conventional wisdom was that Iraq flew apart into a bloody civil war a few months ago, if not several years ago.

Now, kindly show where Tully said that the press was getting "everything" wrong, or where he denied that things were "bad" in Iraq. I don't think anybody has ever disputed that parts of Iraq are seeing some nasty violence. The question is how widespread that violence is, on what theological, cultural, clan, or ideologic lines it is split, and whether on the whole we are winning or losing.

We try to be pretty specific and factual in our criticisms here. You'd have a lot more credibility if you tried it sometime.

Not that it matters

Justin, but I have been posting AP headlines for a few years at various blogs. I have noticed the spin and factual errors for sometime and wondered if it was really an editorial slant. In fact, I have been following the NYT since Israel bombed Saddam's nuke facility. I also keep an eye on WAPO, the BBC and the Guardian.

This is what I have found. There are often alarmist news reports about threats and trends, but then there are long news posts that go into depth that advocate ( selectively) approaches that go directly against reasonable strategies to counter the very threats they sensationalize. Instead of balancing their longer reports with quotes from memriblog, they seem to select the supporting references from the Left side. As news outlets, these organizations do not vet the facts enough before issuing editorial viewpoints. An example would be posts that talk about Iran involved in terrorism and then posts declaring military action against Iran, utterly foolish. They pump the threat and then advocate their spin on where the resolution lies. One post discusses Sunni tribal leaders moving against AQ and then another editorial post concludes America is completely failing in Iraq. The Times does this too. They advocate negotiating with Syria, while posting news stories confirming Syrian missiles being moved, Syria?s rejection of Israel peace offers or UN resolutions, arms going into Lebanon etc. These outlets did print false info during the Hizb'Allah conflict with Israel and they rarely show much outrage about events in Iran or even followed up the attack in Syria against our embassy in which embassy film clearly suggested attack was a staged act. In short, many of these news agencies alarm and show many threats, but then often oppose US policy in a backhanded editorial fashion.

Just an observation.

Don't hold your breath, Pat.

Don't hold your breath, Pat. It's not in him. The PDS™ has progressed too far. Besides, I think he's sweet on Kathleen Carroll.

Isn't there a vaccine?

If we had universal health care, would he be able to afford treatment? Is there some kind of machine or a pill he can take? Something? Anything?

Depends on his age. If he's

Depends on his age. If he's over 40, the prognosis is truly bleak at this point. Stem cell research holds some promise, but....

Ahh! Now I understand...

That's why they're so insistent on embryonic stem cell research! It all makes so much more sense now. They're trying to develop a cure for their own affliction.

PDS

I'm a bit dense. PDS is?

Political Derangement Syndrome

It comes in many strains, and is capable of rapid mutation. The most commonly seen variety today is BDS, Bush Derangement Syndrome. In the late 90s, the most common strain was CDS, Clinton Derangement Syndrome. All research towards a vaccine has proven unproductive to date.

Symptoms include insistent

Symptoms include insistent and persistent use of logical fallacies, particularly argumentum ad personam and ad hominem, straw men, red herrings, denialism, misrepresentation, and diversion in preference to rational examination or discussion of factual events. The telling point is the single-sidedness of the argumentation--those who show such symptoms without an obsessive partisan or anti-partisan focus are more likely suffering from a different mental disorder.

Care must be taken to distinguish the true PDS™ sufferers from defense attorneys. It's not always easy.

Monday LOL

You two make me laugh......And I come here to prevent those symptoms from taking root in my own somewhat compromised cognition. I assure you both, your blog has blunted my PDS, if not my CPD and windedness. That may require professional intervention.

Note, after years of denial and posts that questioned intelligence reports about Iran : this. Now watch more AP reports calling for negotiations, our withdrawal from Iraq as a path towards peace and how DOD is manipulating facts to blame others. What news organization asked Iraqis to call in and post the whereabouts of our troops trying to thwart this situation? What news group called Iran's taking prisoners a response for unjustified holding of innocent Iranians in Iraq? Hhhhmmmm.

The BDS thing is pure

The BDS thing is pure unintentional comedy. Bush's approval is at what, 30 something percent, has screwed up a war etc., and any criticism of him us seen as some type of mental illness by his apologists. I love it--it's like watching a really, really bad movie.

Another symptom of BDS...

Another symptom of BDS is distortion of the claims actually being made by those who diagnosis its presence.

Criticism of the President is by itself not BDS, and nobody suggests that it is. But making broad-brush, hyperbolic criticisms of the sort that could neither be proved nor disproved does indeed constitute BDS.

Thus, "President Bush was wrong to pardon Scooter Libby, because it sends a message that politically connected individuals are above the law" is not BDS, but legitimate criticism. One can have a rational discussion and debate on that topic. But to describe the Bush Administration as one which is "characterized by a politics of cynicism and division, one that has consistently placed itself and its ideology above the law" is pure BDS, as it is essentially pure emotional, subjective opinion, unsupported by any facts or reasoning.

I was just gonna go with

I was just gonna go with "QED."

[weird, I thought I had

[weird, I thought I had posted last night]

Now, kindly show where Tully said that the press was getting "everything" wrong, or where he denied that things were "bad" in Iraq. We try to be pretty specific and factual in our criticisms here. You'd have a lot more credibility if you tried it sometime.

Tully and I went back and forth a while ago on Baldilocks' blog about this, where he was explicitely saying that things were not that bad in Iraq (if Tully disputes this I can dig up a link).

The point is that Tully is not doing an analysis of AP stories to find errors, he is cherry picking stories where they may have gotten the story incorrect, and trying to paint a picture of some sort of anti-American bias at the AP and in the MSM. That approach has zero intellectual merit and is only good for scoring rhetorical points, at most.

Look at the irony of Tully's blog title--rightwing bloggers accused the AP of making up stories in large part because Jamil Hussein did not exist, then it turns out he existed, and Tully is still using that as ammo against the AP?

And I thought the conventional wisdom was that Iraq flew apart into a bloody civil war a few months ago, if not several years ago.

Well, it's rather interesting that the same people (I think both you and Tully) that claim Iraq is not in a civil war also claim that millions will be killed in Iraq when the US leaves. Do you see the contradiction?

You did

[weird, I thought I had posted last night]

And it was unpublished for persistent dishonest discourse after repeated warnings, and on the off-chance that you had been over-indulging after a bad day at work. Some people are slow to take hints.

Schopenhauer's avowedly dishonest "bully dialectic" technique was amusing when I was twenty, which wasn't remotely yesterday. Now it's just freakin' tedious, and boring. You've been repeatedly warned about it. My patience with it is gone. Especially coming from someone who is clearly capable of better--but still chooses the low road at every opportunity.

If you wish to keep commenting here I sincerely suggest you read and consider the rules of the blog before posting again.

Well, I think that your

Well, I think that your posting on this topic is rather intellectually dishonest, and I have no qualms about taking the "low road" and calling you out for it, especially when I know that you are capable of better than repeating right-wing partisan talking points.

Out of respect for you and this site, I'll take the hint and stop commenting on this topic.

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