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Walmart and Title VII

Submitted by Simon on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 9:25pm

It looks like the Walmart class action case is going to come a cropper, as they say, and the optics are unfortunate. By unhappy coincidence, the court's female justices are all liberals, and a 5-4 decision in a case that is in some senses about sex discrimination, with the female justices all on the losing side, seems tailor-made for outraged editorials in the New York Fishwrap. There is, of course, a splendid solution for that, one that President Daniels/Pawlenty/whomever should take. (Interestingly, Judge Sykes gave a talk on this subject just recently.)

This case isn't so much about the substance of employment disrimination as the outer bounds of the class action device, but while I'm here, a word on sex discrimination cases. Title VII bans discrimination on a host of grounds, including sex, and there's no doubt whatsoever that such discrimination happened. Cf. Ledbetter v. Goodyear, 550 U.S. 618 (2007). But I must admit to some doubts about how widespread it remains today, because refusing the services of a superior candidate on grounds wholly extraneous to anticipated performance (as most of the Title VII protections are) is, in a word, stupid. Employers who discriminate in this way lose out on talent and thus revenue, which might lead one to think the behavior self-deterring. Law can generally assume that people act rationally, and so it only needs to intervene to prevent socially unacceptable behavior that enriches the actor; socially unacceptable behavior that imposes costs on the actor is by-and-large self-deterring. Cf. Easterbrook, The Chicago School and Exclusionary Conduct, 31 Harv. J. of L. & P.P. 439 (2008).

Put another way, promoting optimally-talented people benefits a company, so a claim that an employer is arbitrarily excluding a group of otherwise talented people from promotion is ultimately a claim that the company is acting irrationally. And we ought to be very skeptical about claims that require us to believe that an employer is acting against its own interest on the basis of dubious—even frivolous—asserted motivations. Cf. Matsushita v. Zenith Radio Corp., 475 U.S. 574, 587 (1986) ("if the factual context renders respondents' claim implausible—if the claim is one that simply makes no economic sense—respondents must come forward with more persuasive evidence to support their claim than would otherwise be necessary"); see also id., at 595. One must therefore wonder why EEOC would grant leave to sue in cases like Greene v. Potter, 557 F.3d 765 (7th Cir. 2009), Holland v. Sam's Club, 487 F.3d 641 (8th Cir. 2007), or Grabovac v. Allstate, 426 F.3d 951 (8th Cir. 2005), where claims of gender discrimination are easily rejected. This is only slightly less true in cases like Zimmerman v. Associates First Capital Corp., 251 F.3d 376 (2nd Cir. 2001), where discrimination can be and has been inferred by a jury.

I certainly wouldn't say that sex discrimination is extinct, but I think we (and particularly EEOC) ought to take into account the changes in society since Title VII was enacted and view such claims with a significantly more skeptical eye before exposing companies to significant litigation costs.

the opinions of those

The opinions of those who have not worked in retail deserves to be doubted. I worked in it for years. It has a deeply ingrained male subculture, especially the closer it gets to the real front lines like walmart and grocery stores, where muscle is a premium. The cementheads keep finding ways to keep their positions guarding the chicken coop from the wimmenfolk. I saw this over and over. And over.

Sure, and that may be so; I'm

Sure, and that may be so; I'm certain it's so in individual cases. My point is that such behavior is irrational, and we should be skeptical of claims that people (or, a fortiori, companies) are acting irrationally or against their own interests. And because EEOC performs a gatekeeping role, 42 U.S.C. § 2000e-5(f)(1), it's appropriate that they be at least somewhat skeptical before allowing aggrieved employees to sue.

I can't agree...

I can't agree, for the most part. I've spent most of my life in retail management (grocery stores, drug stores, fast food chain and now an automotive race parts supplier), from the mid 80's to today. While I grant you there are a few cementheads out there, most of the men I have worked for, and with, do not have a problem with women in the workforce.

The women were promoted right along with me through the ranks. The only women that I saw "get passed over" were those that weren't willing to get their hands dirty when the job required it. The same thing happened to the guys who exhibited the same behavior.

how much time did you spend NOT in management?

The really hateful stuff gets spewed when managers aren't around. Imagine some guy talking about submarining some SEE-YOU-NEXT-TUESDAY. Imagine this two-faced sycophant then giving very polite "I don't want to be a bad guy but" reports to management about the unsuitability of that female co-worker. I've seen managers buy it hook, line, and sinker.

I'm certain things are changing and glad that they are. I'm just as certain that walmart is one place that has a ways to go. Of course, given that they treat their employees fairly shabbily all round in comparison to other retain chains, sexism may not even be the biggest part of their problem.

NOT in management?

I started when I was 16 and worked various jobs until I was out of college and in between jobs after a couple of layoffs. Sooo, roughly 12 years. Enough time to have seen, and heard what you are talking about.

I never said it didn't exist, only that it is not endemic of the institution. Being profitable is what really drove myself and the people I have worked for and with. If a woman could handle given job better, then she got it, raise, and promotion.

I can not speak to Wal-Mart and sexism. As to treating their employees shabbily, I could not agree MORE. I have shopped at my local Wal-Mart for years now and know a number of the employees. Some of the management decisions that I have seen and heard the store make have me shaking my head. They seem to be totally misguided and non-sensical. Curiously, not one of the employees has ever spoken about being harassed because they are women, rather, it's that management seems to have an unrealistic business model. (My phrase, not theirs. Their phrase is a bit more pointed and graphic. :) )

I agree

I don't think it's endemic either. In my experience, you're right that the people who don't want to get their hands dirty or do what it takes when the chips are down are the same ones who rely on excuses for why other folks advance.

But I did see a fair amount of men go out of their way to single out women for not pulling their weight while letting such behavior slide among fellow men.

Walmart's biggest "problem" is their willingness to such their employees totally dry and deaden their souls. The people in charge clearly see this bug as a profit-generating feature, though.

I had to laugh

I had to laugh at this...

Walmart's biggest "problem" is their willingness to suck their employees totally dry and deaden their souls. The people in charge clearly see this bug as a profit-generating feature, though.

That is exactly the kind of discussion I have had with the employees that I know at Wal-Mart, be they male or female. Generally, responsibilities are expanding for them and there is less help available to accomplish management objectives. The Cosmetic Dept. head, a full time employee, now has cosmetics, and 3 other departments to order and maintain. Sadly, she not the only one.

Management seems to be taking the short term view, "make as much as we can, while we can, damn the consequences". It will generate short term profits to be sure but in the long run, their image, stores and profitability are going to take a beating.

I saw this same concept employed, though not to the same degree, at Osco Drug during the early 80's. It took several years before some basic common sense finally crept into the corporate office and they backed off a bit and gave the store managers some flexibility.

pile it high and watch it fly

Walmart's business model is clear. They work on a really low margin with tiptop volume. That always means that when push comes to shove, they sacrifice service and the customer experience.

Our local walmart just converted to a super-walmart. It's very clear that they are clobbering local grocery stores, and just as clear that they have had to cut back on selection everywhere else due to insufficient total footprint. There are a number of sections in walmart where I now won't even TRY to shop for things . . . almost anything that Lowe's or Home Depot sells, for example.

I doubt Walmart is interested in backing off. They're certain they can replace any employee who won't toe the line, and they've proven their willingness on this matter for decades.

One place I think they will smarten up is on getting better at restocking in the grocery store sections during the day. They're leaving a lot of money on the table there, and there's no good reason for it.

Tipping point...

The problem is that, as low as prices are, others are becoming fairly competitive at price, with better selection and a much better overall experience. At a certain point, you reach a tipping point, and the Walmart that was incredibly packed 24 hours a day suddenly looks like a K-Mart on a slow Wednesday afternoon.

I recently posted a rant about the Walmart shopping experience on FB, mentioning that I used to enjoy shopping there, and now no longer go there unless I absolutely have to. I had many people chime in, in agreement, and none voicing disagreement. Hardly a representative sample, of course (how did Nixon win? Nobody I know voted for him!), but telling nonetheless.

At the moment, Walmart is targeting the price-conscious shopper, and only the price-conscious shopper. That's not a bad model at the moment, with the economy down and all. But at some point, the economy will pick up, and the number of uber-price-conscious shoppers will decrease, and that's when Walmarts' currents short-comings will hit them in the pocketbook.

In my own city, we've got a number of Super Walmarts, a couple of Super Targets, a Sam's Club, etc., and there's still plenty of room for a number of very good locally-owned grocery stores as well as plenty of other chain-store groceries.

Chris Rock tells a joke about how every town has 2 malls: the mall where white people shop, and the mall where white people USED to shop. As with many of his jokes, there's a bit of painful truth to that one. Fifteen or 20 years ago, the hierarchy was Walmart at the top of the middle-class general purpose store, with K-Mart somewhere below it, and Target largely unheard of and off to the side. Now it's Target, then Walmart, then (does K-Mart even still exist?). If I have to buy anything I care about at all, I'm going to Target or a specialty store. Walmart, in my mind, is for cheap, disposable crap with no styling, and maybe some bulk food products. If I want a nice toy for a child's birthday present, or some decent-looking temporary furniture, maybe a TV-tray table or something, that's Target. Walmart is for really cheap plastic shelving for the utility room or the garage. And I groan every time I have to go there, because I know that the lines are going to be very long, and half the self-serve check-outs will be down, and they almost never work right anyway, and are hard to use because the tables are too small to hold your basket of stuff.

I have a hate-bregrudging acceptance relationship with Wal-Mart,

as I once swore I'd never shop there again, and then I changed my mind. I go there when the sales are good, but their customer service is awful, although it has gotten better.

The Super Wal-Mart is a freak of nature...

if we run out

Well, if we run out of people who are "price conscious" as a matter of necessity, then Walmart will really be in trouble.

Nothing I have seen at any of the Walmarts in my area makes me think they aren't still killing their competitors. Target does not really impress me as an actual competitor for Walmart. It is, as you toucch upon, a place for people who don't mind paying a few dollars more for a slightly superior all-cotton shirt made in china at the 3rd crappiest factory. Or $4 more for the same bag of fertilizer. Or who really want to pay a few hundred dollars for nice lawn furniture that sets them apart from folks who can only afford $11 resin chairs, etc.

Walmart is absolutely a zoo, it's the russian front of retail, and I shop with that in mind, so I can remain calm.

One last thing about retail and franchise operations that i always try to point out to the less familiar is this: never make the mistake of overgeneralizing about a chain based on the crappiness of your local store or even a small handful. Such joints are inevitably a function of the owner and or manager, as well as the cultural quality of the local labor force. I have a friend that's a retail district manager in detroit. He worked in the chicago area, too. Stores in low-income, high crime areas are largely a function of their environment.

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