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John Bolton proposes that we accept the failure of the two state solution, and prefer pushing Gaza into Egyptian control and the West Bank into Jordanian control. Thoughts?
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...only that I wish our great-grandchildren better luck with the solutions they devise. They'll need it.
It's a perfectly fine idea
with only one tiny, little flaw. Nobody has figured out what inducements to offer Jordan that might make them take back the West Bank nor Egypt to take back Gaza and they'd be nuts to do so. Other than that it's a very good idea.
What he said.
What he said.
Not a new idea.
Not a new idea. However, what IS new is the role Iran is playing. That is making the Sunnis a bit worried. I doubt Israel can back out now considering the effect on Iran, Syria and Hizb'Allah. (see below)
If you observe how armed Hamas already is, what genius would suggest that by not acting now Hamas would stop stockpiling and using weapons? Bush endorsed the Two-State solution as did Rabin. Israeli leaders have tried for decades to get Jordan and Eygpt to administer the terrortories in such a deal. Hamas made the wrong move to signal what they thought of negotiations and the Two-State plan. It's One State baby....
Perhaps Brian is right, but given the geopolitical implications of current escalation, perhaps it is time to resolve the consistent lack of restraint on the part of those militants determined to destroy Israel. Iran has been publicly warning of an act that will destroy Israel. Hhhmmm...Hamas started firing missiles as soon as the truce expired. Carter went to Syria to talk moderation to Hamas and was rebuffed. Hamas publicly declared their intent to destroy Israel. Connect the dots.
What has changed now Brian, is that military technology and Israel's pullout of Gaza and Lebanon has left Israelis exposed to missiles that Syria, Iran and even Russia (RPGs) are more than happy to supply. Leaders on the Right in Israel are saying, "I told you this would happen". Just look at what Perez is saying.
Bolton simply suggests recycling an old idea given present realities, because the current ideas ain't working.
Let us be clear.
Many of the Left vilified Sharon and said he would never leave Gaza. Then he left and formed a Centrist Party. Liberals didn't know what to do, either there or here. Hating the man changed a bit as he lay dying in a coma. Next tipping point was the challenge from the Left that free elections be held in the West Bank and Gaza. Let’s see how smart Bush is bringing Democracy to the Middle East. It doesn’t look so good in Iraq. Liberals were putting Bush to the test and indeed an election was held. The majority in Gaza chose Hamas. Oh that’s great cried the world and a civil war broke out between Fatah and Hamas.
Iran and Bin Laden demanded Gazans resist peace talks and work to destroy Israel. They offered Hamas money in defiance of an international embargo. Jordan and Egypt, moderates in Lebanon and Gulf States as well as Saudi Arabia knew they were also being targeted by this double sword of AQ and Iran. They started to show some moderation towards Israel and US intelligence services. Still, the Left attacked these states for human rights violations (indeed they do bad things), while trying to defeat in the ring of public opinion any attempt to threaten, sanction or counter Iranian influence. Iran laughed and continued to work with Syria and Hizb'Allah. The Western Press largely ignored the violations in these three adversaries. More incredibly, the media and Democrats OVERLOOKED THE FAILURE of UN monitors in Lebanon to keep Hizb'Allah from storing much more advanced missiles. They said nothing as Hizb’Allah installed private telephone and computer cables and rebuilt bunkers. Syria hopes to enjoy advanced anti-missile systems from the Russian fleet.
While casually asserting Israel has the top military in the region, many Liberals dismiss the complete horror such a conflagration of weapons would cause. Were Israel to do nothing, Hizb'Allah and Hamas would accumulate tens of thousands of missiles minutes away from all of Israel. For what purpose? Tehran is hoping Obama-Gorby will retreat. I rather doubt that. Instead, Iranian move puts Obama in a defensive position before he takes office. The Supreme Mullah has expressed his intentions were Obama to still wonder what the top dog thinks. I actually suspect our adversaries think Obama is weak and will not stand up to the anti-war drone at home as it intensifies with nightly coverage from Gaza. Media has more images to manipulate.
There will be no talking heads declaring that retreat from Gaza in the first place probably cost Israel. The return is at a steeper price. And if the US had pulled out of the Green Zone? Wasn't the mantra of peace that by leaving Iraq, peace would come? Does peace really come when security is naught?
There will be no pundits predicting when Hizb’Allah will rejoin the fight. The time is running out and I hope that Obama understands the end game. While Reid is acting the bouncer, the next bailout weeks away, Obama has a chance to finally co-opt the security question, bring Republicans aboard and send a loud bipartisan signal America is not retreating, nor should our allies fear our demise.
If he waivers, the ripples will trip the wires.
Yeah, what you said, Max.
You've covered pretty much everything here.
Not quite...LOL. When
Not quite...LOL. When students in Tehran show more balls and honesty than over at NYU, we've got to reconsider our media/educational process.
Iran is now boasting more than 70,000 are ready to join Hamas. Again, did the NYT front page thousands of Hamas fighters training in Syria and Iran? Did they report on the tons of weapons getting into Gaza? Did they report the plight of Palestinians under the Hamas Regime? Do they step back and talk about the trending strategic balance or is everything now a stumbling America seeking a "way out"?
I am sorry to say that the first 60 days of the Obama team may determine how they will fare. Paneta does not make me feel confident, but Obama has all the tools and people he needs to send an unambiguous message. In fact, retooling American Power may prove to be the most significant stimulus he can come up with considering the disaster that will come should we trip and fall.
Check this one out:
This solid gold piece from Michael Totten:
Yep.
Totten hits it on the nose,
Totten hits it on the nose, and bloodies said nose.
There's a HUGE problem with Bolton's proposal
It would be a good idea except there is no way Jordan, Egypt or the Palestinians would accept it. If you were relatively peaceful, relatively prosperous Jordan, would you want to take in the Palestinians? If you were Egypt, teetering on the brink of serious political upheaval already, would you really want to take in the ticking time bomb that is the Gaza Strip? And if you were the Palestinians, would you really want to be the reluctant step child in either country?
--Fern
Paperback Traveler
I have to agree with Fern on
I have to agree with Fern on this. The Palestinians do have a right of a land of their own. The real problem here is the faction in power does not want to allow any existence of Israel. Israel has every right to defend against this. Now, the Arab world could help if it would offer it own assistance to Palestine in money and knowledge instead of allowing Iran's idea of Palestine as a proxy battlefield. The real solution lies with the Arab world telling Iran to shove it and taking an active hand in trying to help the situation.
Same shit, same paper....Update
Like Hizb'Allah, Hamas is up to the same shit. But wait, this is the “real” truth as presented by the NYT. Let's just say the NYT is now acting like the propaganda wing of Hamas. Really a pathetic bit of crap reporting. You would think they wised up after this . I did predict that this propaganda would happen. Media cries over the 30 dead at the UN school used as human shields by Hamas and fills the bandwidth with pictures of evil Israelis. Yep, those Iranian students who are now probably on the run in Iran are more honest than the Western Press.(see their words in a link above)
Even Stewart last night found cheers as he questioned Israel's moral ground. He never showed pictures of bombed out schools in Israel. He never played clips of Hamas calling Israelis pigs and apes. Nope, he played more the Palestinian apologist.
Jordan and Egypt know exactly what administering the West Bank and Gaza would bring.
I find the innocent victims a sad fact of the terrible tactics Iran, Syria, Hizb'Allah and even AQ have encouraged Palestinians to follow. You don't scream for the destruction of your neighbor and prepare for attacks and then ask for sympathy. Once again media filters facts to support their ideological view. Never does it ask, "Is it worse to have children killed as human shields by bombs that fall from the sky, or from ones strapped to their chests by those that lead them into the abyss?"
Consider that moral quandary NYT.
A different view
Also CNN and other outlets still refuse to even mention the possiblity that Hamas was using the UN school as a human shield. Again, not a mention of reports by Gazans that Israeli claims are true.
Update
"GAZA CITY, Gaza – Israeli mortar shells exploded Tuesday near a U.N. school in Gaza that was sheltering hundreds of people displaced by Israel's onslaught against Hamas militants, killing at least 30 Palestinians, tearing bodies apart and staining streets with blood.
Israel's military said its shelling — the deadliest single episode since Israeli ground forces invaded Gaza Saturday — was a response to mortar fire from within the school and said Hamas militants were using civilians as cover.
Two residents of the area who spoke by telephone said they saw a small group of militants firing mortar rounds from a street near the school, where 350 people had gathered to get away from the shelling. They spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal." Yahoo News
Let the UN investigate how their "school" became a weapon depot. and then there is this. Israeli intelligence confirms what students in Iran already knew. Anyone think the NYT has the professionalism to report Hamas using children as human shields? I guess this video isn't as clear as the Rodney King beating. Again, remember the image the NYT used. When the truth finally gets out, will the NYT apologize for claiming those children were killed and injured by evil Israel? See my header.....
Also Debka link leads to another Debka report about an interesting cease fire agreement. Eygptian and Jordanian troops take up security positions in Gaza, maybe.
What she said. Both nations
What she said.
Both nations have been doing their best to dodge picking up that package for decades. Why would they change now? It cannot possibly benefit them.
Hamas Charter
Here is the Hamas charter. I have mentioned time to time, the Muslim Brotherhood. You can see the connection. The Nazis left their imprint on the Grand Mufti, who started the Brotherhood and Saddam was from this line. Now the Brotherhood looks to Iran. Egypt is in a struggle with the Brotherhood, while a number of Democrats actually think they are mainstream...LOL. Hamas and the Brotherhood have been wound tightly to Iran. It is this amalgam that Egypt and other Sunnis deplore.
Despite missiles being fired into Israel from Southern Lebanon, the media fails to explain who is responsible and what threats Israel is up against. They seem to only connect Cheney-related dots. As not so plausible deniability, Hizb'Allah says it didn't fire the missiles. Iran with Syrian help, gets Hamas on the ground in Lebanon with the assistance of Hizb'Allah. At least three sworn enemies who seek the destruction of Israel. Read the charter. Media suggests ISrael should retreat and allow these partners more time to load up.
In order to distance himself from Malley, Khalidi, Trinity and their ISM crowd and even Carter, Obama said he would not negotiate with Hamas. Calling himself Israel's best friend, picking Clinton and having his name attacked by AQ and Iran, leaves Barak with few credible options. Perhaps Totten is right.
Media refuses to ask why Israel should pull back now when deals made by the UN in Lebanon were never honored. It is no secret that the UN did not disarm Hizb'Allah but rather watched as they reloaded and rebuilt while boasting they have five times more firepower to rain down on Israel. Even now, UN can't even spot missile launches.
"Andrea Tenenti, a spokesman for UNIFIL, the U.N. peacekeeping mission in Lebanon, said the rockets appear to have been fired from a point about 4.5 miles east of Naqoura, where the peacekeepers are headquartered." CNN
The UN is 99.99 sure that no militants fired at Israelis from their school in GAZA? How about explaining the secondary explosions and two dead militants. CNN won't even discuss what the dangers of a pre-mature pullout would mean. I guess they can't wait to broadcast Hamas claiming victory.
Now that's some reporting. Let's see what the UN is promising to do this time. They failed their promises in Lebanon.