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Official in Venezeula: NO!

Submitted by Tully on Sun, 12/02/2007 - 11:32pm

Cheesy Amateur Photoshopping!

Official results from CNE are that NO wins. Rumors are running wild about attempted vote-rigging or coup by Chavistas, but that's the official announcement. CNE says the trend is not reversible. Unofficial reports follow earlier reports that the result may have been negotiated to narrower margins for Chavez to save face. Preliminary reports were 5-8% NO win with only 10-12% unreported.

Congratulations to the people of Venezeula, and may the results stand.

OTOH, Reuters has not conceded as of this time. :-)

UPDATE: There's the Reuters concession!

Unofficial numbers reportedly from inside CNE sources continue to show a much higher spread. Chavez's concession speech is sounding ugly. He's lecturing the opposition, even warning them. But the official report stands--he lost. See linkage below for checks & balances in the voting system.

Morning Updates and linkages:

News agencies that should be ashamed of themselves for cheerleading and prematurely declaring a "victory" for Chavez (That photo above is for you!): Reuters, Sky News, China News, Al Jazeera.

Hugo's concession speech reportedly ran two hours. I went to bed when he started on the coffee in the first fifteen minutes--an indicator he would be thrilled with his own voice for quite a while.

Caracas Chronicles says Hot Tally sheets will indicate how accurate the CNE tally is. The overall numbers reported by CNE are considerably lower (both spread and total votes) than the unofficial reports. Student pollwatchers gathered "total vote" numbers at 27,000 polling places, which can be compared to the reported total votes. See next. One cannot assume that the early reports were accurate, and despite the natural cynicism regarding Venezeulan polling, there IS a checks & balances system.

Daniel at Venezeula News and Views has more roundup from Caracas. And Quico has some choice words on skepticism and a primer on the checks & balances in the system. His general take: Fraud is possible, but it would be visible. So if the totals were adjusted to save face for Chavez, it should be fairly obvious. Likewise, if the spread closed drastically in the last states/polls reported, one can make a fair assumption that someone tried to pull the classic "packed poll" late return--and it wasn't enough. See below.

The Devil's Excrement has the official CNE percentages.

Tweaking my suspicions about the accuracy of the vote totals is this paragraph from AP:

Opposition activists were ecstatic as the results were announced shortly after midnight - with 88 percent of the vote counted, the trend was declared irreversible by elections council chief Tibisay Lucena.

The reported final spread of well under 2% on the first ballot question is not even remotely "irreversible" at an 88% count. With 11-12% of the vote open, strong returns from one state could overwhelm that difference. A margin of 5%+, OTOH, is indeed pretty irreversible in such a close vote. This is roughly the difference between the remaining ballots needing to go 55/45 to close the gap, and needing to go 75/25 to close the gap. The first is somewhat possible, the second is not. Even to get from a 5% spread at 88% returns to an under-2% spread at the final count requires some seriously unbalanced totals in that final 11-12% of the ballots. IF that occured, it would indicate but not prove a classic "packed poll" attempt.

Gateway Pundit: Doing the Marxist Slide-- Venezuela Votes on Chavista Rule... Update: CHAVEZ WINS!... Update 2: Maybe Not?... Update 3: CHAVEZ GOES DOWN!!

Bravo for the way you've

Bravo for the way you've conducted yourself in following and presenting this news.

***

Also, and quite separately, ain't it grand when, every once in a while, optimism turns out to be the winning bet?

The people, yes.

Morning NYT

For the record, I ask all to read the frontpage of the NYT. The article on Chavez uses adjectives to describe Chavez that reflect a disturbing inclination. Narrow? Well, after the effort to swing the vote to his side maybe..LOL. His efforts bold and not disturbing? The review of Putin's win, also is muted placing Bush's concern at the very end. Remember, the communists called this the dirtiest election since their ouster. The article on Sudan seems to praise this country's behavior. Does anyone else sense a certain disconnect to the import of events?

The NYT article on Chavez

The NYT article on Chavez was pretty good, and so was the one on Putin. What did you want them to say? I think you are trying to hard to find bias here.

I thought NYT played it

I thought NYT played it pretty straight-up. As did WaPo. Those were the only two US daily "majors" with correspondents actually IN Venezeula, and the delay in the reporting kept them from hitting their original deadlines on first filings.

The delay in reporting is what REALLY got the rumors going. CNE had the results in hand well before 11pm Caracas time, their designated reporting time. It was more than two hours later before they reported, after a LONG back-room session with representatives of both blocks and Chavez--and representatives of the military present as well. And yes, the National Guard did surround the CNE building for "safety reasons" when the vote was not announced promptly at 11pm.

The Hot Tally results will let us know how high the actual turnout was, and thus how accurate the reported results are. Projections were the NO block needed 60% turnout to prevail with margins rising rapidly in their favor after 60%, but reported turnout per CNE was only 56%. From other sources it was cited as well over 60%, but there's no way to verify that without the Hot Tally.

In any case, the old saying seems to apply. If it ain't close, they can't cheat. Even LBJ/Daley-style poll-packing fails when the spread is too big. No coup without the military on board, and according to my sources the military refused in advance to go against the vote--either way.

Yes, not as bad as some other outlets BUT

The actual printed front page had the headline that said voters handed Chavez a narrow defeat. Right below that was the strange subheadline that said the "slim" victory would lead to "acrimony" beween the pro-Chavez and opposition groups. Acrimony as a front page headline? My take is that the NYT was hoping most wouldn't know what arcrimony was....LOL.

The text goes quickly from some opposition remarks to more elaborate comments by Leftists. The NYT skipped over Chavez's declaration about "for now"; Bloomberg.com did not.

Chavez's use of the words ``for now'' in his concession speech echo a statement he made after his failed attempt to overthrow the government in 1992. After that, ``for now'' became a rallying cry for his supporters. Bloomberg

The NYT left the economic problems (real problems for the "poor") and Chavez's behavior for the end, but not after this gem:

Mr. Ch?vez, whose followers already control many powerful institutions ? the National Assembly, the federal bureaucracy, the national oil company, the Supreme Court and all but a handful of state governments ? relied on an unrivaled political machine to gather support for the measures.

I believe the Times has had harsher words for the Republican political machine and last I heard, Republicans didn't close media outlets, deployed thugs (who fired weapons), intimidated voters or forced government officals to swear an oath to Chavez.

I point out your last comment. "If it ain't close, they can't cheat." Chavez didn't cheat after the polls closed, so despite the NYT reaffirming the "closeness", "photo-finish" and "slimness" of the vote and depicts the future moves Chavez will try with "acrimony", the truth is closer to a larger defeat than government numbers show. Yes, "bold" would be the word I would choose to describe this last year's Chavez show. Seems the NYT didn't choose such adjectives to describe Bush's last year with a surge, firing Rumsfeld, proposing immigration reform, sanctioning Iran, or even calling Clinton the most qualified Democratic candidate.

Oh, I didn't expect them to

Oh, I didn't expect them to change their stripes as far as their editorial shading goes. But they did a credible job of actually posting the strict news, and did not leap to publish the Chavista pronouncements of victory as Reuters and others did.

Glad you thought they were dandy......

Is that really the best picture to post of Putin given recent events?

1. unsolved deaths of journalists
2. arresting Kasparov
3. preparing fuel for Iran's new reactor and stonewalling new sanctions
4. missile attack on Georgia and refusal to remove forces
5. threats of nukes targeting Europe in Belarus
6. condoning employers pressuring workers to vote Putin
7. failing to prive visa for US and European monitors
8. forcing out human right NGOs
9. weapon systems for Syria and Iran to protect their nuke programs
10. energy extortion which Europe has condemned
11. claims to the Artic
12. reports of unprecedented post-cold war spying and stratgic bomber runs
13. links to polonium assassination
14. serious meddling in Eastern European elections including the Ukranian episode
15. new flexing of military muscle directed at NATO and the US
16. probable third party tranist for NK proliferation

There are more. NYT has been fairly easy on Putin. Gone are the traditional fears about threats to liberty, proliferation etc. Note NTI's recent claim about where radiactive materials are coming from. Putin has delivered some of the harshest attacks on Europe and the US. I would file this reporting under "those who dislike Bush", rather than "a troubling move away from real Democracy".

That was my only point.

Gracias de Dios

I couldn't be happier being wrong!!! Maybe Raf has something. If only the Russians were as smart. Now in four years I don't have to hear Hugo anymore. Even he said that a close win would have been a problem. I suspect the military had reservations. Humbled however, I think not.

Chavez should be happy. He's alive.

I'm in the same place you are Max. This is all great news.

The people have spoken, and the Chavistas have lost.

Didn't I tell you that prayer works?

"In the world you will find tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world."

John 16:33

It's baaaaaack.....

Well Raf, start praying again, and this time please petition G-d to be harsher in His punishment.

Chavez returns to normal. Perhaps he was inspired by the latest hanging of a minor in Iran despite the court demanding a review and the plaintifs retracting their claim.

Perhaps Chavez should consider Putin's strategy. Will Ortega pick up the phone? Or perhaps Bolivia?

good news is good news

I'm glad the voters chose the direction they did. It's very good news, and also it's somewhat reassuring, isn't it? If Chavez's plan lost by a healthy margin, then that shows that at least for the time being there's an enduring respect for democracy.

Obviously Chavez is disappointed and bound to be angry, right? A good measure of the man will be how he responds in the wake of this. Not simply his easily predictable immediate reaction, but his actions in the upcoming months.

I'm no fan of the guy and no expert. So I'll be interested to see whether he keeps up the role of the moral scold who knows better on these issues, or whether he shows acceptance of the judgement of the people and tries to work with them...

I'm skeptical on that count. Especially because of my experience here in Massachusetts with referendums. Usually, even a sound defeat of the know-betters at the polls leads to the reaction by the know-betters that they just failed to properly inform the great unwashed. [... as opposed to actually entertaining the notion that people understand fine and disagree with your prescriptions] So the know-betters repeat the referendum with minor tweaks and greater zeal. Sort of like when you disagree with someone and their response is to repeat what they've already said, only louder.

That's a real flaw in the referendum process here...I think there ought to be a mechanism making referendum defeats stick for at least 6 to 10 years before know-betters get another swing. Didn't Quebec keep revisiting the secession question on multiple occasions? Tiresome.

__________
I have often said, and oftener think, that this world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel. -Horace Walpole

Good points

I agree. If Chavez continues his actions against Spain and Columbia, his economy will continue to suffer. Maybe we could make a trojan gesture and out-smart him.

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